In these cases, “finished” is past participle or adjectif?
The finished aricle/product.
Their marriage was finished.
The play is finished.
What is the difference in meaning btw adjectif “finish” and the verb “finish” in:
a. The play finished at 10.30.
b. The play was finished at 10.30.
(In (B), “finished” is adj or the past participle of the passive voice?)
Thanks
The finished aricle.It’s Participle II expressed as an attribute in the sentence.
Their marriage was finished. (Participle II, past passive of the verb to finish,as predicative in the sentence)
The play is finished. :shock: (Participle II,present passive of the same verb, as predicative in the sentence)
The play finished at 10.30.( better to say was finished)
Hi,
I think in all the mentioned cases, “finished” can be either adjective or past participle.
What I don’t understand, that why there are at once 2 natures of words (adj and past participle) because with the mentioned cases, I think only one verb is sufficient, we can form the sentences.
Do you think the adj “finished” in any dictionaries is unnecessary?
Thanks
K
Hi Khahn
Past participles are used as adjectives extremely often. For example: “storm-ravaged houses”. 
Sentence (a) is fine. Simple past tense (active) of the verb finish.
Although there is a resemblance to passive, sentence (b) is not in the passive voice and the word finished can easily be replaced by a different adjective:
The play was over at 10:30.
No. The word finished is regularly used as an adjective and has a number of different meanings.
Amy
Hi Van Khanh,
The use of the word finished both as an adjective and past participle is perfectly acceptable.
You could illustrate this by developing the sentences you have given. The writer Charles Dickens wrote a book called the Mystery of Edwin Drood. He didn’t finish (simple past)the book because he died before he had written the complete story - in other words the novel wasn’t finished (past passive)by him. Later another writer finished (past simple)the book and the finished (adjective meaning completed) book was published.
Alan
Thanks Alan and Amy.
Hi Amy,
Please read:
We finished the play at 10.30. (Active voice). (a)
When you change (a) into passive voice, you have:
The play was finished at 10.30. (passive voice) (b)
Compare (b) with:
The play was finished (=over) at 10.30. ©
Can you tell me the difference in meaning btw:
(b) (passive voice)
and:
© (not passive voice)
Only in this case,if (b) and © have the same meaning, do you think the appearance of either “finished” (past participle) or “finished” (adj, means “over”) in the dictionary is unnecessary?
Thanks
K
Hi,
Just to make the point once more: The play was finished means it came to and end - it ended - it was no more. It isn’t passive because there is no agent stated or implied. It wasn’t finished by anyone - it simply came to an end.
Alan
.
Just out of curiosity, Khahn, why in the world are you worried about whether a dictionary entry is “unnecessary”?
.
Hi,
Ok. (I asked many times because I am affected by French :lol: ).
Thanks.
K
Hi Amy and Alan,
Please tell me the difference btw :
a. I won’t be finished for another hour.
b. I won’t finish for another hour.
Many thanks
K
.
Basically the same grammatical difference, Khahn:
1.
In my humble opinion:
1a = 2b —> [b]finish/b is used as a verb (You could have included an object in 2b, but you didn’t. “Finish” is used as an intransitive verb.)
1b = 2a —> finished is an adjective and basically describes the state of the subject.
Neither 1b nor 2a is a passive sentence.
I’ve forgotten my French. Can you build passive sentences with intransitive verbs in French?
Amy
Hi Amy,
In French , “finish” is transitive verb. In English, “finish” is also transitive verb (you will see [VN] with “finish” in the English dictionary).
So, in short, please tell me only one thing. We don’t speak any more about passive or not. You are native speaker. So, when seeing:
a. I won’t be finished for another hour.
b. I won’t finish for another hour.
How do you feel? The same meaning?Please answer yes or no?If not, what is the difference in meaning?
Thanks
K
P.S:
Finish( v) : To stop doing sth.
Finish (adj) : No longer doing sth.
Ok, a and be aren’t the passive form. But, do you realize, if they are the same meaning, that putting adj “finish” in the dictionary is unnecessary?
Hi Khahn
The verb finish can be both transative and intransative.
The meanings are the same, but I’d be much more likely to use sentence a.
I really don’t understand your logic about the dictionary. Finish (verb) and [b]finished /b are two different words. If you start leaving things out, people might think it’s because the word can’t be used in a particular way. Since finished is used so often as an adjective, I think it’s good to include it specifically as an adjective along with its various meanings.
By the way, finish can also function as an adjective as in:
The projected finish date is September 2007.
Amy
Hi all,
I hope things work fine after this extensive dictionary discussion. I just wonder if the last sentence Amy wrote was correct or it has a typing (press) mistake.
Amy wrote:
In my humble opinion; it should be in this way:
The project finished date is September 2007.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Baraa
Hi Baraa 8)
Have you checked a dictionary for the adjective “projected”? I hope that your dictionary has not decided that this word is unnecessary. :shock:
My last sentence was written exactly as I intended to write it: “The projected finish date is…”. This is a sentence that companies often use. The adjective “projected” means “planned” or “predicted”.
The verb “to project” might be an interesting verb to discuss in a new thread.
But it’s true that you could also talk about the “planned finish date” of “a project”. 
Amy
Hi Amy,
Let’s consider “finish” only as a transitive verb .
So, please read:
We finished the play at 10.30. (Active voice). (a)
Because “finish” in (a) is transitive verb and “the play” is its object.Thus, (a) can be passive.
When you change (a) into passive voice, you have:
The play was finished at 10.30. (passive voice) (b)
Compare (b) with:
The play was finished (=over) at 10.30. ©
Can you tell me the difference in meaning btw:
(b) (passive voice)
and:
© (not passive voice)
Right now, please read again (b) and ©. How to distinguish when “finished” is adj, when “finished” is past participle? Please tell me what is the difference in meaning btw (b) and ©?
Only in this case,if (b) and © have the same meaning, I think only the verb “finish” is sufficient because only with the verb “finish”, you can express the idea.
You know, the adj “finish” in the dictionary has various meanings.But only in the case where the adjectf “finished” has the meaning of the verb “finish”, I don’t understand why there is the adj “finished”?
Thanks
K
Hi Amy,
If you think my mentioned examples are not clear, please take this example:
Let’s consider “finish” only as a transitive verb in:
I finished my homework (Active voice). (a)
Because “finish” in (a) is transitive verb and "my homework " is its object.Thus, (a) can be passive.
When you change (a) into passive voice, you have:
My homework was finished. (passive voice) (b)
Compare (b) with:
My homework was finished (=over). ©
Can you tell me the difference in meaning btw:
(b) (passive voice)
and:
© (not passive voice)
Right now, please read again (b) and ©. How to distinguish when “finished” is adj, when “finished” is past participle? Please tell me what is the difference in meaning btw (b) and ©?
Only in this case,if (b) and © have the same meaning, I think only the verb “finish” is sufficient because only with the verb “finish”, you can express the idea.
You know, the adj “finish” in the dictionary has various meanings.But only in the case where the adjectf “finished” has the meaning of the verb “finish”, I don’t understand why there is the adj “finished”?
Thanks
K
PS: After reading this part, Amy, please return to “which” and “which one”, read and give me your opinions about my questions. Thanks.
Hi Van Khanh,
I think you are getting over exercised on this matter. Remember that there are many,many verbs in the language which can take on different roles in the past participle form. These can be part of the perfect tense, part of the passive formation and also an adjective. Let’s take an entirely different verb - approve. As it is a transitive verb, it can be used in the passive form.
Perfective function: The government has approved the proposal
Passive function: The proposal has been approved by the government.
Adjectival function: This proposal is no longer temporary but approved. It is an approved proposal.
I really feel this discussion has now reached the stage where all the variations have been considered. What do you think?
Alan
Great,
That’s what I need. Do you agree that understanding is one thing and expressing is another thing?
I have the last question for you:(Please help me)
Please read:
The play finished at 10.30. (a) (“finish” is intransitive)
We finished the play at 10.30. (b) (“finish” is transitive, active sentence).
The play was finished at 10.30. ©(“finish” is transitive, passive sentence).
The play was finished at 10.30. (d) (“finished” is adj, means “over”).
So, by basing on what you have said, these 4 sentences have the same meaning, although the function of
“finish(ed)” is different. Do you agree with me? Please confirm me by “yes” or “no” in this case.
If you say “yes”, do you agree that © and (d) have the same appearance, the same meaning but in ©, “finished” is past participle and in (d), “finished” is adj? Again, please confirm me by “yes” or “no”.
If you don’t agree with the examples I gave, please explain.
Only if you don’t agree with the given example,please explain then read only the 4 following sentences and share with me your opinions:
a. My homework finished. (intransitive)
b. I finished my homework.(transitive active)
c. My homework was finished. (transitive passive)
d. My homework was finished. (adj, means “over”)
So, by basing on what you have said, these 4 sentences have the same meaning, although the function of
“finish(ed)” is different. Do you agree with me? Please confirm me by “yes” or “no” in this case.
If you say “yes”, do you agree that © and (d) have the same appearance, the same meaning but in ©, “finished” is past participle and in (d), “finished” is adj? Again, please confirm me by “yes” or “no”.
If you don’t agree with the examples I gave, please explain.
Have a nice weekend.
Many thanks
Khanh
Hi Khanh,
I really feel that this discussion is getting nowhere. As I have said before, the use of the past participle of a verb can often be used as part of the passive form or can be regarded as an adjective. The only criterion for the past participle being considered as part of the passive is when there is either an implied or a stated agent (ie by someone/something). You can create statement after statement with examples like: The play was finished/completed/exaggerated/complicated/refined and so on and so on but if the word formed by the past participle of the verb merely describes the status of the noun qualified and there is no indication that any action has been carried out by a person or a thing, then the word must be an adjective and not part of a passive construction.
Putting it simply from my point of view I would say that this discussion is now finished (adjective).
Alan