Hi
I’ve been wondering for a while now how the word “slang” (and also “slang idiom”) is defined at english-test.net.
My question is intended primarily for Alan, Torsten and Linda because I don’t understand the rhyme and reason for categorizing so many of the tests as English Slang Idioms. I mean, this collection of tests seems so haphazard and mixed that just “Sentences” or “Random Sentences” might be more appropriate labels. :?
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Hi,
The question is whether the title of individual tests is going to concern those who actually take the tests. I think the tests should be assessed on their content.
Alan
I agree. Most of our users will actually never see the titles of the tests so they are rather insignificant. What really counts is what a person can learn by taking the tests as well as by asking questions regarding the expressions contained in the tests. Also, any test whether it contains “random sentences” or not is better than no test at all.[YSaerTTEW443543]
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I agree with that, Torsten.
But neither you nor Alan have answered my question. 
I think it is a mistake to believe that no ESL student will pay attention to the name of the test. So, it seems only fair to ask what the name “English Slang Idioms” is supposed to tell them.
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Hi,
Yours wasn’t really a question. It was a comment and I and Torsten have separately made our comments.
Alan
That’s rather slippery of you, Alan.
The very first sentence I posted was this:
If you don’t understand that to be a question, then I’ll reword it for you:
How does english-test.net define the word “slang”, and how does english-test.net define the expression “slang idiom”?
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Amy,
I’m always open for productive and useful suggestions which our users can benefit from. If you have a better solution for the test titles then I’ll be more than happy to hear it. Calling our tests “random sentences” or “mixed sentences” won’t help our users though.[YSaerTTEW443543]
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Hi Torsten
I did not create those tests, so the fact that they’re practically impossible to categorize is not my doing. However, whatever you might decide to call such a collection, “English Slang Idioms” sends the wrong message in very many instances. That is my opinion based on my own understanding of the expression used as a title/category.
I realize you don’t like comments or questions that tend to rock the boat, but why on earth should things like this not be mentioned and discussed?
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Amy, I don’t like useless comments such as “name your tests ‘random sentences’”. I do like useful ideas that can be implemented so many people can benefit from them. If you do have a better solution for the titles of Linda’s idioms tests then why don’t you tell me? Instead of going round in circles and making assumptions as to what kind of comments I like or dislike you might have as well posted your solution at the very beginning of this thread.[YSaerTTEW443543]
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Hi Torsten
I don’t know what the “best” solution would be at this point, and I’m sorry that you find my input “useless”. As I said, the tests I’ve looked at so far in that category seem to be an extremely mixed bag. I mean, there are tests of expressions even some native speakers have never heard mixed with age-old expressions mixed with ordinary vocabulary and so on.
What do you think might be more appropriate? Something such as “English Expressions and Vocabulary” maybe?
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How about ‘Tricky Situations’?
“Each person is unique, each situation needs individual attention and solutions. Tricky situations are preventing me to reach my goals. They bear unexpected difficulties, often confront me suddenly with barriers, attacks, negative feelings and result in the weakening of my position. The skills that are needed to master these awkward situations can be learned.”
Hi Ralf
Yes, tricky indeed. Do you have any suggestions?
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It goes without saying that the current title(s) of Linda’s tests are far from ideal. First of all, it doesn’t make much sense to give hundreds of test the same title. Second, the phrase “English slang idioms” sounds pretty odd since a phrase can either an idiom or a slang expression but seldom both. So, yes it would be great to rename all the tests. The question is how? It would be ideal if every single test had a unique title that described what exactly what the test is all about – something like a summary of the ten test questions. Again, if you have any suggestions as how exactly we can solve this problem, I’ll be more than happy to hear and implement them.
Many thanks,
Torsten[YSaerTTEW443543]
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Hi Torsten
I imagine that an average ESL student would find the title “English Slang Idioms” to be interesting because they might expect to find something similar to “street slang” – i.e. something new, non-standard, and/or hard to find in a dictionary, for example. To me, the word “slang” suggests sub-standard or at best non-standard, so categorizing all of these tests as “slang” basically tells an ESL student that “anything you find in these tests is not appropriate for standard or more formal use”. However, that simply is not the case.
I mentioned “Random Sentences” earlier not as a solution, but rather to make the point that that is exactly what the collection seems to be: completely random. My opinion is that this collection of tests needs a more suitable and less misleading title.
Ideally, it would probably be “best” to rearrange/regroup the sentences and create several different categories – e.g. so that sub-standard usage is together, brand-new idioms are together, traditional expressions are together, very informal usage is together, specialized jargon is together, everyday vocabulary is together, etc.
My assumption, however, is that such a regrouping would be much too time-consuming at this point. Thus, a compromise solution could be to find some sort of title that better describes what’s actually included in these tests – and that would have to be very general.
Here is another suggestion: What about just “Idiomatic Usage”?
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Hi,
“Idiomatic Usage” sounds better, definitely. Google gives you about 35,000 hits as well.
I checked “idiomatic expressions” and got just about 550,000 hits. Might be worth considering with regards to outside hits.
Hello everyone,
I think that discussing the title of these tests is worth doing; however, I don’t know if we will ever find a “suitable” or “correct” name for these tests. As usual, as much as ESL learners and teachers would like, putting any type of expression, grammar and syntax rules etc. into a neat, tidy, little box with no air holes is nearly impossible to do in the English language. Not only does a subjective aspect play a role but there are exceptions to nearly every rule.
As well, the word ‘idiom’ is defined as: "b: the syntactical, grammatical, or structural form peculiar to a language 2: an expression in the usage of a language that is peculiar to itself either grammatically (as no, it wasn’t me) or in having a meaning that cannot be derived from the conjoined meanings of its elements (as Monday week for “the Monday a week after next Monday”).
'Slang" is defined as "language peculiar to a particular group: as a: argot b: jargon 2: an informal nonstandard vocabulary composed typically of coinages, arbitrarily changed words, and extravagant, forced, or facetious figures of speech."
These definitions are very similar and can and do encompass a wide variety of sentences. phrases, words etc.
These tests are meant to not only test the students’ knowledge about common expressions and idioms but also to show the students how one would go about using these expressions in everyday English.
By definition, it seems that the title “English Slang Idioms” works. However, I would like more feedback about this matter.
Hi Linda
There is not the slightest semblance of an airtight box here, nor has that been recommended. In fact, if the sentences are not to be organized at least a little bit, my suggestion was to give them a broader, less misleading title.
What we have here is a sea of sentences and no compass. There is really no discernible organization to the “English Slang Idioms” tests other than the fact that they have been collected in groups of ten, numbered, and then dumped into one huge messy pile under a single misleading title.
I picked a couple of the “English Slang Idioms” tests randomly. Here are a few words and phrases tested in them:
Which of those are “slang”? Which are “idioms”?
To add to the confusion, the “English Slang Idioms” tests have all been dumped into the section called “Grammar”.
It’s nice that ESL students have this pile of test sentences available to them, but there is no rhyme or reason to them at all. That is precisely the reason it is so difficult to give them an appropriate name.
In addition, if a student wants to look at a particular word or expression in context again (e.g. a week or so later), it’s often not possible to even locate which test it was in. It is not possible to search the tests on this site. Hundreds of tests with the same name doesn’t provide much of a clue either. So, if a test-taker did not write down the URL or the number of the test (each of them seems to have two different numbers, by the way), the only way to get search results for something in a particular test is if there has been a question and answer posted in the English Teacher Explanations forum. Unfortunately, some of those answers (not to mention other things) are deemed “useless” around here.
Making the tests themselves “searchable” is another question, though.
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Hi Amy,
It seems you are trying to answer a question that many English teachers, tutors and students, alike, have tried to answer in the past.
Even Mister Micawber wrote (about the difference between idioms and slang in his opinion):
“No difference, I think, other than that which distinguishes idioms (groups of words whose meaning has changed from the sum of its individual words).”
english-test.net/forum/ftopic25776.html
That’s also why I wrote the definitions down in my previous post because we can hardly argue about something without first clearly defining the words in question.
In an essay by David Burke who wrote “Street French and Street Spanish,” he wrote that slang is nonstandard vocabulary words (such as backfire); whereas, idioms are phrases like “he lost sight of his goal.” It seems that David Burke also didn’t know the difference between the two and he interviewed various teachers about the definitions.
So, there is some rhyme and reason to the grouping of these tests.
The questions contain both idioms and slang words. Maybe the tests should be called “English Slang & Idioms.”
As far as the students’ study habits, I can’t comment on that. If I were a student and I had a question, problem or if I just wanted to remember a certain word or phrase (or reference it in the future), I would write down the specific word or phrase or the title of the test (in full) in my notebook so that I can reference it again in the future.
That’s what I would recommend to students.
Whether they choose to use a notebook and keep good notes is up to them. 
Amy, please do make a concrete suggestion as to the title of those tests. I really look forward to your proposals.
Many thanks,
Torsten[YSaerTTEW443543]
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God forbid the tests might become searchable, eh? What a preposterous idea!
It’s interesting that you seem to believe this sea of tests is both navigable and logically titled.
But I suppose beggars can’t be choosers, right? 
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