TOEFL prepare for exam

English as a Second Language Preparation for and help with the TOEFL® Test and
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Dear Everyone,

My name is Kenya. I wish to introduce myself and ask for some advice, in tandem, if I may??

First of all, this forum about ESL is fantastic. I haven’t had time to look at all the topics yet, as you will see, but I finally have to ask for some help as I have given up on all other efforts to help someone pass the TOEFL exam.

I should say that I lived in China for 3 years, until 2001. I met the person who needs help, my wife, while I was studying there. I speak Mandarin, but her spoken English was/is so beautiful, and I was very impressed. Our communication was instantly good in both languages, and is mainly English now…except when we’re in public and mad about something :slight_smile:

Ok, enough of that ;0) - Her problem is that she has taken and failed, including today, the TOEFL test 6 or 7 times now. Her scores get better, then worse, then better, etc. She has always had a good enough score to get into an undergrad university, but since she has a degree from China and has been working in her field since we moved back here, she is trying to get into Grad school. They have all but accepted her into the school; they have her transcripts, done an interview, knows the director of the program, etc., but she has to score 215. There are no exceptions - not 214, no favoritism, no pleading with them and that’s how it should be. There’s a reason she has to have a certain score - it’s a full time program and your English has to be good for papers, presentations, etc.

Last year this program had more foreign students than Americans. I met a few of the foreign students, and I just cannot understand how they could have possibly passed the TOEFL with a 215. This was only based on not being able to understand them sometimes and hearing the normal grammar mistakes when they spoke. Maybe they just knew how to take the test. I personally don’t think the TOEFL study books really help one’s English. Studying the grammar, syntax and other rules just load my wife’s brain with too much garbage. But, what do I know? I cannot teach her why a clause goes where it does or what a split infinitive is doing in a sentence nor anything else really. It’s all memorization for me, like most of the people I know, and my grammar isn’t always perfect either. I can’t believe that I would get the wrong answers on a few practice TOEFL tests I took. I have so much more respect for anyone coming to America and trying to pass these exams, let alone the INS tediousness (that’s a whole other forum). Hmmmm…I wish knew some English teachers.

Actually she does pretty well on the grammar/structure, but now it’s the listening comprehension and writing she has a problem with. I have always noticed that no matter how clearly she speaks, when she reads anything in English, out loud, she has a hard time with words she’s not seen. There are just too many words that the English language doesn’t need, no? She also writes very long sentences that should be paragraphs, but no commas, periods…or just the opposite - short sentences with punctuation in the wrong places.

Can anyone help with good resources for tips on listening and writing? I have read a lot and paid for many things via the web that are supposed to help. So much stuff that deos not help. She has the Kaplan, Delta and other texts. Testmagic.com really helped her getting better grammar scores, and the TOEFL is “all about the scores,” nothing else as far as I’m concerned. Maybe some of you disagree and that’s ok, I just want her to PASS THE TEST so she can be happy. This Graduate program is odd in that you don’t have to take the GMAT until you’re well into it and that can be at the very end if you want. The GMAT is not exactly easy either.

Thank you all so much for reading all of this, unless you took a nap after the first paragraph, which is quite understandable. grin Bye for now.

Regards to all,

Kenya
kmillina@yahoo.com

TOEFL listening discussions: Why is the man taking this course?

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Dear Kenya,

First of all, many thanks for investing the time and energy into finding a solution for your wife’s situation. Based on my experience, describing a certain situation in the written form is about 70% of the answer to the actual question. Once both you and your wife have set the goal to achieve a TOEFL score of 215 you will find the techniques, methods and means to reach that score.

Now, let’s take a closer look at what you should do. You say that your wife’s English is very good and since you speak Mandarin which is very unusual for an American you are in a position where you can evaluate your wife’s language skills objectively.

However, when it comes to achieving a specific score in the TOEFL, good English has to be defined again. As you know the TOEFL measures your wife’s ability to understand spoken academic American English as well as her writing skills. It’s probably a good idea for your wife to concentrate on improving those two areas by designing her own individual training plan that integrates writing in English as well as listening to authentic sources on a daily basis. Let’s start with the listening.
My advice is to use audio materials that cover areas your wife has the keenest interest in. You have tried Kaplan and other TOEFL prep courses and apparently they haven’t been very effective for one single reason: Your wife didn’t enjoy using them. Forget about the TOEFL, [color=blue]focus on things you know and enjoy doing. What majors is your wife going to study? Find audio materials that feature those very topics. They might be difficult to come by but if you do some research and use your creativity you will succeed. Go to your university’s library. Ask for recordings on those topics. Make sure your wife listens to spoken English [color=blue]not because she wants to take the TOEFL but because she wants to [color=blue]learn something new about here professional field. That’s the trick. Use English not as the goal but as [color=blue]the means to reach your goal. This is a very simple principle, yet is is powerful. Apply it to your wife’s writing training program as well: Instead of starting by creating TOEFL-style essays have her keep her own diary in English. She should make one entry per day and doesn’t matter how long or short that entry is. Let her write about whatever is on her mind. Again, forget about about the TOEFL for a while - the TOEFL is not important. Create an atmosphere in which your wife can easily and feely speak (and write :slight_smile: )her mind. It is vital that she write simple sentences which she knows are correct. Ask her if it is OK for you to read what she writes so you can amend her texts. Don’t try to explain every single grammar rule - all this grammar information gets in her way and often confuses her more than it helps her increase her active vocabulary.
How did you learn English? By [color=blue]copying words, phrases and entire sentences into your head so you can use them correctly without thinking about every single grammar rule contained in those constructions. Also, you should find reading rescources for and with your wife that she enjoys using on regular basis. Again, it is important that you select articles and texts because of their contents and the information contained rather than the grammar. After all, the TOEFL measures a person’s ability to understand and use English in an academic context. The TOEFL is not a test for people who want to become English teachers.
If you want more of suggestions please take a look at this article:
english-test.net/articles/69/index.html

Let me know what you think. Let’s see what the other forum members have to say on this interesting issue.

Regards. Torsten
PS: How and where did you learn Mandarin?[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC short conversations: The HR manager informs A job candidate about her success[YSaerTTEW443543]

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Hi Torsten.

Wow! That was a great response and I thank you.

First I should say that when almost everyone I have introduced to my wife listens to her speak, they will comment on how wonderful her English is. It was the same with me when I first met her. The pronunciation of her vocabulary is almost “exoctic” sounding (for lack of a better word now), as her slight accent could be perceived to people that she just has a gift of speech or something?

Yes her English is good, but “it’s” misleading because she just doesn’t have as big of a vocabulary as she wants, and this is something we’ve discussed ad nauseum. We also talked so much about her just reading the paper, a book, whatever, every single day. She has to read at work (emails, memos - she’s an accountant which was no easy task considering her degree is from China), but she gives into her need to go to the Chinese News internet sites and read for quite a while. I can’t blame her for that. I told her long ago that she should do a Mandarin fast, including not talking to her family (letting them know in advance, of course) and not speaking Mandarin with a certain co-worker, period! That’s just a starting point though.

Funny you mention American English because she simply doesn’t understand people here from Britain or Australia, nor those particular accents she hears on TV. No problems with understanding foreigners that have other native language tongues though?

We spend a lot of time at the library. Not a university one, but your idea about her learning more about her career via audio is outstanding.

You make me laugh - she does not and NEVER will have the inability to speak her mind. It’s funny to me and will be when I tell her, because we talk all time about how she desperately tries and succeeds at being the boss of the house. Personally, I like that strength and the respect she commands. So, even writing freely won’t be a problem as long as she stays focused and does not get too bored. It’s very, very uneasy for her to write what she feels in English. I will see that she does what you suggest in writing simple sentences and having me proof-read them. I can’t exlpain the grammar anyway, usually, so that’s covered.

Like I said, great advice. I think this will help, a lot. She is, however, very impatient. She has already signed up for another test next week. There used to be a limit to how many you could take per month, but she picked a different location and the computer accepted it. She also has tremendous peer pressure or social status issues amongst her fellow Chinese friends, not family. The Chinese (not American born - I want to be politically correct here but not fake) from certain “tribes,” as she says, can be incredibly petty and judgemental about even good friends. THey can revel in friends’ misfortune, etc. She can never tell her Chinese friends about failing the test so many times. She would lost face, but she feels very open with our American friends.

That is about the only thing I didn’t like when I lived there, but so many cultures in the world have their “issues.”

Since you asked - I learned Mandarin in college, along with some Asian history. After I finished medical school in the States, I did a long internship in ShenZhen and a uniquue rotations/residency in Hohhot. ShenZhen is in southern China, across from Hong Kong and Hohhot is north, and very “rural,” for a city of over a million. I was a “movie star” in Hohhot because it is in deep China or the real China as they say, so no other guilaos (foreigners) there. The actual practice of medicine in the higly developed areas (yes, the big beautiful cities) of China is corrupt, save for people that are truly descent human beings, and except for most physicians, the Chinese people are very good souls.

Well, you only asked how I learned Mandarin and I just went off. Oops! I mostly had to relearn it while I was there, but I was saturated with it. Reading and writing is another story. I know many Chinese characters, but I cannot read their cursive (sp?) usually, and there are so many characters (combinations) that I couldn’t learn them if I studied the rest of my life. It’s easy to speak, but so hard to read and write. And Cantonese…forget even speaking that language unless you’re a child. Too many tones per word (14 - Mandarin has 4). It’s weird, but the Cantonese and Mandarin both read the same exact script, but pronounce it differently - completely.
I am just writing on auto-pilot now, but thank you so much again Torsten. That was helpful and kind.

Regards,

Kenya
kmillina@yahoo.com

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Hi,

Whoa is me ;0(…no one except for Torsten wants to write to me. I’ll just do a re-write to get more empathy ;0)

TOTALLY KIDDING FOLKS!! I’ve read posts from many of you and you’re all one big combination of: very humorous, creative and brilliant. I cannot be included in any of those categories…whoa is me again big smile

Torsten, you most definitely know your business and how to teach English. I can see that you put much time into this. It is your gift and would be endlessly tedious for many people to not only be a writer, let alone a very good writer, but to respond so timely and teach while doing so.

Ming, my wife, has been at it all day - doing one of the things you suggested. I’m actually at my parents home now so she can use the computer at our home to listen to audio and so she can be alone without my being a distraction (have to watch football after working for a bit today).

She picked up some CD’s at the library today and is enthusiastic, to say the least. One-step-at-a-time I keep saying, but she had to schedule that other TOEFL exam for this coming week. ?? She’s just gotta pass it so she’ll be happy during her upcomming birthday and our travel during the holidays. She did indeed, however, get CD’s related to her career interests like you suggested.

Lastly, Torsten, you either have some great word/words/phrase auto-editing on these forums, or you are watching while I write?? Which one? I’m curious, I can’t help it!

Thank you again and again. Bye for now.

Kenya

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Hi again Kenya,

You have brought so many interesting issues providing enough food for thought for the rest of the year. That’s why I suggest we take one bite at a time (you know the old saying about how to eat an elephant).

What kind of audio materials Ming has come across? You said that you spend a lot of time at a library and often it can be difficult to find appropriate recordings. Ming is an accountant so it probably would be good idea to pick CD’s covering such issues as balance sheets, taking inventory, profit loss analysis etc. There certainly are audio books for accountants available at Amazon or Audiobooks.com or any other similar site. Before Ming listens to the course she could do a short brainstorming session: She first writes every single word or word combination related to accounting in Chinese and then she repeats the exercise in English. You will see that writing down one word triggers the mind to retrieve other vocabulary items that are connected to that word which are linked to other items and so on. This can develop into a train of thoughts and she might be surprised as to how many words she actually knows. Then she could listen to the audio course or even better she could have the tape or CD play in the background while she is doing something completely else. That way she could relax and her subconscious mind would be open up and it would start absorbing the sound of new words like a sponge. The next day she will have new words in her mind she might not know the meaning of but she will be able to speak the words and that’s much more valuable because it would enable her to ask you what those new words mean and how they are spelled.
Please, let me know what you think of this idea and I’ll respond to more the interesting information you have entered.
Regards
Torsten

PS: You might wonder why at this point I’m the only one to communicate with you. Well, there are lots of people who follow our conversation because they have the same questions and experiences like you, Ming and me. At some point some of them will engage in our conversation. Please do keep expressing your ideas because that very process often is the key to the solution you are trying to find.[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC short conversations: A customer complains about bad service[YSaerTTEW443543]

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I’ve been following your ordeal my dear Kenya and let me tell you I find it really interesting moreover I like your writing style. I’ve been meaning to write you but my writing skills are not as good as you deserve to be addressed though your experience has been of much help to me.

I’m looking forward to hearing that your wife finally made and I engaging in a more casual conversation.

regards…

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Hi kenia:
My name is bouchaib I am from Morocco. I am a foreign graduate and preparing for the Toefl test too. It is all about making the scores. I need 82 with 26 in listening and speaking and 18 in writing. I used kaplan and internet websites, but I still having trouble with the spaking part eventhough I speak english daily. I hope that your wife will overcome that situation and finish her dream. Good luck.

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Kenya’s dilemma is 5 years old now Toefl09.

It would be interesting to see any feedback from him however.

Toefl09, are you facing issues only in the speaking section?

In that case, you can record yourself on a topic and share it with us.

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I still need to work on my speaking very hard to make sure that I will get at least 26 on the real test. I will do some speaking samples. I hope somebody will check them and tell me what mistakes and parts should I work on. Thank you very much.