The greatest glory in living [does not lie] lies not in never falling

English as a Second Language English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms
1

Hi, every one

I am just wondering the quote

The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling but in rising every time we fall - Nelson Mandela.

Does the meaning still remains the same if replace “lies not” = “does not lie”
The greatest glory in living does not lie in never falling.

If no, could please explain why ?

2

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Mr. Cheng:

I shan’t answer your question directly, but I did want to remind you of President Kennedy’s famous line:

“Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.”

In regular English, I assume that one would say “Do not ask what your country …”

According to my books, the English people hundreds of years ago, did not use the word “do” when they used negative sentences.

Today, one uses “do” – except when you wish to use extremely elegant English, as Messrs. Kennedy and Mandela did.

James

P.S. May I most respectfully point out, that everyone would say “If not, could you please explain why?”

3

Hi James,

Thank you for your help and correction.

What you meant is [Lies not] and [Does not lie] do not have significant change in the meaning, It’s all because the history background of English and aspect of elegant English ?
You have mentioned the book , Could you share with me the name of that book ? (do not get me wrong, I read many of your replies to others, you usually mentioned your books [beside Practical English usage by Michael Swan which I already had] , I am interested in the books you read, especially in Grammar, writing. I would like to expand my knowledge about English.)

4

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Mr. Cheng:

If I understand my books correctly, here is how the negative developed:

  1. I NE say.
  2. I NE say NOT.
  3. I say NOT.
    a. This was very popular for a while, but many languages usually put “not” before the verb. So the English changed to #4.
  4. I NOT say.
    a. But this was not considered “natural.”
  5. I DO NOT say.
    a. This became accepted.
    i. “Not” formally comes AFTER the verb (as in #3) but it comes BEFORE the important verb (as in #4).
  6. I don’t say.
    a. This is popular in conversation because the word “do” sounds “weak” in #5. In #6, however, it gains “strength.”

One book says that we use #3 in “our better moments.” That is, when we want to sound very elegant, poetic, emotional, etc.

Here is a quotation from that book:

"“We cannot do wrong to others with impunity. Our conscience RESTS NOT until the wrong be righted.”

I think that sentence sounds more beautiful than, for example: “Our conscience does not rest until we correct the wrong.” What do you think? (Or in older English: What say you?)

If you are interested in pursuing this matter further, I think that the Internet must have many results about the historical development of the negative in the English language.

My favorite book is a two- volume masterpiece written in the 1930’s. It is called A GRAMMAR OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. It was written by George Oliver Curme. It describes why we speak today in the way that we speak. It is full of examples of older and current English. I think that a good library would have a copy. It is very difficult. It would not be helpful to a student unless he (or she, of course) were studying English grammar at the university level. I cannot understand all of it.

Another book that is also very useful and much shorter (and cheaper?) is called GROWTH AND STRUCTURE OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE (1938). I very much recommend this book. I think that you would benefit from it very much since you are interested in how the language developed. It was written by Otto Jespersen. He was a Danish person, but he learned English so well that he is recognized as one of the greatest grammarians of the English language.

Have a nice day!

James

5

Hi James

Thank you so much for sharing the books name and giving more concrete examples. I never think my question related to history background and what you gave has broadened my view. These books are like a fine wine, just better and better as the time goes by. I always think the grammar books which were developed in many decades ago are invaluable. They got everything we need like a dictionary of grammar. Modern grammar books tend not to cover all the aspect of how the languages work (I cannot blame because it makes the books more easy to read and understand for learners). Anyway, I recommend my favorite back, A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language by Randolph Quirk.

Waiyin

6

Yes, Mr. Cheng. I agree with you: Dr. Quirk’s book is indispensable. (I have the 1985 edition.) My only problem is that it is so huge that it is difficult to find what I am looking for, even if I check the index. In other words, what I am looking for is probably in there somewhere, but I often cannot find it!

Have a nice day!

James