Hi
Could you please tell me the correct use of “ones”? Why are my sentences wrong?
Tom
Hi Tom,
As far as I know, after these and those ones is not used 
“Those” and “these” are not only demonstrative pronouns to place before a noun, but are also full pronouns in their own right that can exist independently and replace a noun or noun phrase. In your sentences, “those” and “these” can replace “cars” and “books” without help from another pronoun, so “one” is not needed. However, there are native speakers who use nonstandard English and say sentences just like the ones you wrote. It’s stigmatized, but they do it.
Many thanks, Jamie (K)
Now I understand it almost fully–but there is, as always, [color=red]the last question.
Keeping this statement in mind, why can’t we treat “those” as demonstrative pronouns in my original sentences and “ones” as nouns?
Tom
PS: “the” or “a” last question?
Because “ones” is a pronoun there.
Yes, that’s right.
By whom? Anyway, that would be another inconsistent rule, since the ‘problem’ seems to be with the number (don’t tell me that the use of “this/that/the one” is not standard). But then again: phrases like “your loved ones”, “those are the ones” or “let the little ones come to me” would be wrong too!!
Sorry for the stigmatisers but I, personally, am not going to lose any sleep over this pseudo-rule.
Hi all
I don’t know that saying these ones and those ones is technically “wrong”, but to me it would not be typical usage and they sound odd and redundant in Tom’s sentences.
Whether or not the words “one” and “ones” are used in general was not the question here, but rather whether two very specific collocations are acceptable. My specific advice is that you should not use these ones and those ones. I feel that is simply good advice.
Amy
I hear it all the time, though…
In a candy shop, for example:
“No, no, no, not those ones… these ones!”
So, are you saying that using these ones and those ones sounds childish?
What’s your opinion of Tom’s sentences? Do you feel comfortable with the use of “ones” there?
Amy
I often buy in a candy shop. Maybe that explains it… 
Amy,
To be honest, I was thinking of an adult man giving orders (irritatedly more than angrily) to the shopworker… as if the worker had picked up pieces of candy other than those for which the man had asked.
My gut instinct is that omitting “ones” from those sentences is better than leaving “ones” attached.
I don’t know if it’s necessarily incorrect, however, to keep “ones” attached. It’s a tough call.
One could say that adding “ones” makes the sentences a bit redundant, as “these” and “those” suffice to show the object of the statement.
Sister: “I like these.”
Brother: “I hate those. I like these.”
Yeah, in that case, “ones” is redundant. (had to talk it out to form a more concrete stance. hehe)
Conchita
I hear that!
:lol:
Anyway, in sweet shops, it’s usually your (index!) finger that does the talking, isn’t it? Imagine not being able to point at things and having to resort only to words (No Pointing, Please. Use Your English – or whatever)!
Hi Tom
My intention was to give you good advice and my advice to you remains unchanged. Here are a few links to further opinions and information on the topic of these ones and those ones:
wsu.edu/~brians/errors/these_ones.html
grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/one.htm
eslgold.com/grammar/this_that.html
owl.english.purdue.edu/purdueowlnews/20061024/
Amy
These are excellent links, Amy! :lol: :lol:
Many, many and many thanks!
Tom
Let us all mourn the plight of the fingerless candy-shopper.