I feel that rather with adjectives often brings a bit negative shade.
Or maybe I’m wrong and rather good sounds fine, as well as quite good?
Hi Tamara,
To my way of thinking rather doesn’t often bring a negative shade. It depends on the context of the sentence.
Ex. She is rather ill (means that she is seriously ill)
She is rather attractive
Pamela, just to note: here I don’t mean ‘negative’ as bad, but rather 
as ‘opposite’, ‘contradict’. With something in the context.
Whereas quite is positive (not contradict to something in the context).
That’s just my feeling about using ‘rather’ and ‘quite’ with adjectives.
Hi Tamara,
You could well have opened a complete can of worms by asking this but I’ll have a go. Quite often conveys the idea of to a certain (but not complete) extent as in: quite good, quite interesting, quite difficult where the implication is that we haven’t reached the ‘very’ stage -it’s not very good or interesting or difficult. On the other hand quite when it is used with a word or expression that indicates fullness or completeness or entirety as in: The weather today is quite perfect/I can see that you are quite determined/ I’m sorry but you are quite wrong/I believe your attitude is quite stupid, we convey a sense of 100% qualification of the following word. Then of course the other family member in this sense of well not really is the word fairly linking with the first examples I gave (quite good etc).
Rather can be used with what you might call pleasant describing words when the speaker is putting a positive view by indicating that the qualification is better than others may think. You could say: I know you’re very critiical about that book and say it hasn’t made you laugh but I personally found it rather amusing. Again rather can be used also before adjectives of what you might call unfavourable flavour with the sense of very where again you want to disagree with what someone else has said. You could say: You claim that last night’s play on tv was very clever but honestly I found it rather stupid. Then of course with words that are anodyne -not favourable or unfavourabe - we use rather to show our disapproval as in: I find this coffee rather hot - too hot for me.
Well, I’ve only scratched the surface but those are just some pointers.
Alan
Hi Alan!
Thanks you.
OK.
Not going to rather abstract (and yet a bit too difficult for me) levels,
let me take your saying as a standpoint and play a little with the can 
Just to make the difference more clear for myself.
This can is quite full. (= it’s entirely full. If we have an idea of fullness for this case and, maybe, even were moving toward its complete (!) filling. Intentionally digging out new and new worms to increase the degree of the can’s relative fullness. :D) Now it’s full enough, whether it’s good or bad.
This can is rather full. (= it’s entirely full, but I’m not satisfied (negative), as I’d like to accommodate some more worms.
Or I disagree with someone’s previous saying/opinion about the degree of can’s fullness (for example, I am asked to add a new plump worm in the can ).
(I’ve just interpreted the difference in the light of (my understanding of) your explanation and my own feeling of the difference.)
Yes, that’s exactly what I meant and tried to express by:
(next small step…)
[b]
- Do you know him?
- Rather!
[/b]
‘Dictionary’ definitions for rather allow more than one possible (different!) interpretations of the answer. Following them I could understand the answer as:
- Not a bit! / Not at all.
- Yes, of course! And how!
Hmm…
:lol:
Hi Tamara
The American can of worms seems to be rather less confusing with regard to rather and quite. :lol:
My American ear would be quite likely to pick out “2. Yes, of course! And how!” as the only possible meaning for rather in your example. :lol:
Amy
Hi Tamara,
Continuing the rather/quite saga - your use of rather in:
has the sense of a very fashionable adverb at the moment -absolutely and would be pronounced as two distinct syllables with the stress on the second.
Alan
Hi!
Rath-er?
fashionable…
OK…
This means (as dictionaries also admit for Rather! such meanings as “not for toffee!” and “nowhere near!”),
to be sure, I need to take into account how ‘dandified’ the writer is, and/or keep my ears open - to pick up the stress a speaker makes.
Or immigrate to the US.
Thank you, Amy. You’re lucky to have both ears “from the same mold” (two of a kind). But what would you do if one ear were of American origin and another – British?…
Let’s take a look at another creepy worm…
[size=150]quite[/size]
As I understand, in the same context American and British people tend to interpret the meaning of quite a bit differently. I mean:
quite (AmE) = ‘very’ or ‘extremely’
quite (BrE) = ‘reasonably, but not very’
Well… If I want to make (pay?) a compliment, which one could be better:
- She is beautiful.
- She is quite beautiful.
?
(For British people it’s 1 (as 2 has a shade ‘not the very, but…’).)
Amy, could you say, how they sound for your ears?
Hi Tamara,
How about this conversation?
A Do you know Emily who lives at No 45?
B Ra-ther
A I’m sorry I don’t quite follow why you say ra-ther.
B Well, she’s quite beautiful, isnt she?
A Do you mean a lttle beautiful or very beautiful?
B I should have thought that was quite obvious - very beautiful. Don’t you agree?
A Ra-ther
B Quite
A You mean exactly?
B Quite.
A I suppose you’d rather like to take her out?
B Ra-ther
A That could be rather difficult.
B You’re being quite mysterious.
A Well, I don’t quite know what to say.
B I’d rather you were quite open.
A You’re quite right. The fact is Emily has just got married.
B That’s rather bad news.
A Quite.
Alan
Hi Tamara
A British colleague once informed me that precise meaning of the Q-word (gasp!) depends very much on whether it is stressed or not in the sentence. Now, for me ([size=75]one of those darn colonials[/size] :lol:) things are pretty straightforward. Saying “quite good” in American English is basically the same as saying “very good”. Period. (Or should I say ‘full stop?’ :roll:)
BUT
My British colleague claimed that only if I were to say “quite good” (stress on good) would the meaning be about the same as in AmE (i.e., “very good”). However, she also insisted that if the stress were to be placed on the word quite (“quite good”), then the word quite would indicate that it is good but only in an ordinary, usual sort of way. (i.e., reasonably good, but the idea of “very” isn’t there) Sort of reluctantly calling something “good”. :lol:
Now, I have no idea if any of this is actually true in British English. It’s all hearsay for me. Who knows — Maybe my British friend was pulling my leg. :lol:
But, if you say “quite good” in American English, that’s always more than “good”. Period. :lol:
Amy
Hi!
Oh, mamma mia!…
Quite beautiful bunch of serpentine worms…
Thank you Amy, thank you Alan… now I seem to have (to gain) a quite good exercise for the whole evening…
P.S.
‘Since you’ve already opened a complete can of worms, the only way to confine them again is to make use of a new king-sized can.’ (sorry for my crippled translation of the great worms’ law)
Tamara
Hi Tamara,
All I can say to that is: Quite. Or should it be Rather? OK. Now I have quite finished. I expect you’re rather pleased about that.
Have a pleasant weekend.
Alan
Alan… before you let me go :), please, take a look at my interpretation
(just to let me know, how much of ‘real English’ of such level I can’t understand right)
:
A Do you know Emily who lives at No 45?
B Ra-ther [color=indigo](Yes, of course! [color=red] [but [size=100]there is some negative shade -[/size] I’d rather not to know her :)]) )
A I’m sorry I don’t quite [color=indigo](not completely) follow why you say ra-ther.
B Well, she’s quite beautiful [color=indigo][size=100](the meaning can depend on the stress and tone /inflexion)[/size] , isnt she?
A Do you mean a lttle beautiful or very beautiful?
B I should have thought that was quite color=indigo obvious - very beautiful. Don’t you agree?
A Ra-ther [color=indigo](Yes, formally I agree… [size=100][color=red](…but there is some negative shade or doubt…)[/size]
B Quite color=indigo
A You mean exactly?
B Quite. color=indigo
A I suppose you’d rather color=indigo like to take her out?
B Ra-ther [color=indigo] Absolutely!
A That could be rather difficult. [color=indigo][not very easy 
)
B You’re being quite [color=indigo](in some degree) mysterious.
A Well, I don’t quite [color=indigo](not completely sure) know what to say.
B I’d rather color=indigo you were quite color=indigo open.
A You’re quite [color=indigo](absolutely, very) right. The fact is Emily has just got married.
B That’s rather bad [color=indigo](not very good ) news.
A Quite. [color=indigo]Indeed
P.S. Anyway, Alan, I really enjoyed it. Thank you!!!
Tamara
Just this one more episode won’t hurt now, will it?
How’s that for encouragement?
Hi Conchita
I’ve found that Rather you than me is an idiom, a general one. In this particular case, ‘an expression used when someone has something unpleasant or arduous to do. It is meant in a good natured way of expressing both sympathy and having a bit of a laugh at their expense.’
usingenglish.com/reference/i … an+me.html
As it’s a fixed expression where the meaning of separate words might be not ‘pure’ (in the sense of ‘general rules’ ), I’d rather not take this as a true wild worm. But maybe, I’m wrong.
P.S. Anyway, the expression also contains some negative (or contradict or rejecting) shade which (in my today’s understanding and practice) accompanies actual use of ‘rather’ in most cases. Even when rather is used as a strengthening (comparative) adverb with the meaning ‘very’ or ‘to a large degree’, ‘more accurately’, ‘more exactly’, etc).
Except for Rather=‘yes’ in informal (fashionable :)) British.
Tamara
I was looking around on the Web trying to figure out how to describe the word “quite” to Chinese speakers (on the China Daily BBS, of all places) when I came across this thread.
This quote reminded me of how, when I was in second grade, my mother surprised me one day when she appeared as a substitute teacher for my class. At the end of the day, as she drove me home, I settled into the back seat of the car and announced, “You know, you were quite good today.”
The meaning—from my American mouth to her American ears—was not lost on either of us. (My mother, to her credit, found it endlessly amusing and told the anecdote for years.)
Hi Californian!
As I remember, in “My Fair Lady” (American version, 196?4?) the queen calls Eliza quite charming". And the meaning is also quite clear.
High praise. Almost as in your case
Hi all,
I am totally agree with you about the use of “rather” and “quite” that you’ve mentioned.
I’d like to ask something.
In general:
Quite (positive meaning), rather (negative meaning).
Ex: She’s quite intelligent but rather lazy.
Besides:
1/
Quite + a/an +noun or quite +verb.
Ex: It’s quite a nice day.
I quite like tennis.
2/
Rather + a/an +noun = rather + noun + a/an
Ex: It was a rather difficult question.
= It was rather a difficult question.
= This question was rather difficult.
3/ rather than (not “quite than”) = instead of.
Ex: I think I’ll have a cold drink rather than coffee.
Bye
Van Khanh
Hi all,
I am totally agree with you about the use of “rather” and “quite” that you’ve mentioned.
I’d like to add something.
In general:
Quite (positive meaning), rather (negative meaning).
Ex: She’s quite intelligent but rather lazy.
Besides:
1/ Quite + a/an +noun or quite +verb.
Ex: It’s quite a nice day.
I quite like tennis.
2/ Rather + a/an +noun = rather + noun + a/an
Ex: It was a rather difficult question.
= It was rather a difficult question.
= This question was rather difficult.
3/ rather than (not “quite than”) = instead of.
Ex: I think I’ll have a cold drink rather than coffee.
Bye
Van Khanh