One-Stop-Shop English Grammar book

English as a Second Language What do you want to talk about?
1

Hi,

From your experience as English teachers, are there any books that attempt to have it all?

Excited to get some cookies,

Kilani

2

oh, forgot to tell ya, would such an encyclopedic grammar book be accessible to, let’s say, a post-advanced ESL level student?
How could you help me out in guiding me to a grammar resource that as much close as possible meets the aforementioned criterion?

thanks

Kilani

3

Hi Kilani,

You could try Raymond Murphy’s grammar in use. I use it all the time. There’s also a version for elementary students.

4

Hi

As Ralf said “Murphys” as we call it is a bible for teachers.

You could always take a look at this the very simply written Grammar no problem; www.ourbookstore.com/Products.html?prodid=12-0032&cid=23&CFID=68927&CFTOKEN=69962276&ctry=US

5

Hi Kilani
The “Grammar in Use” series from Cambridge consists of three levels: beginner, intermediate and advanced. The intermediate one (see Ralf’s link) is probably one of the most widely used grammar books on the market. However, it does not address the more intricate points of grammar and usage that an advanced or “post-advanced” ESL student might want or need to know. And, although these books are very thorough and well done, I wouldn’t call them “encyclopedic”.
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6

Thank you for the quick response.

I had Murphy’s book, the elementary level, and I found it excellent, but have not got the chance to look at the higher levels yet.

There is a book by Ronald Carter and Michael McCarthy called, Cambridge Grammar of English: A comprehensive guide (Cambridge University Press, 2006). It has the thoroughness I am looking for, but I have not checked it. It looks great to me but there are some who are unhappy with.

Maybe I should stick with Murphy’s for the time being

-Kilani

7

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Carter & McCarthy is both comprehensive and current, but I personally find it very difficult to use. The section numbers are difficult to read on the right-hand pages (they are in a pale green) and impossible to read on the left (since they are buried near the spine of the book). The index can carry you to the far reaches of the large volume with a single term, so it is time-consuming to locate the aspect which interests you. Its table of contents is too general, so this is not much help either. This grammar book has spun off the massive Cambridge Grammar of the English Language (Huddleston & Pullum), which I find even more unfriendly of access.

Perhaps it is just my old prescriptivist bones, but I still prefer Longmans’s Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (Quirk, Greenbaum et al) for the fine and thorough points, and its spin-off, Leech & Svartvik’s A Communicative Grammar of English for daily practicalities.

Or maybe I just need more practice with Carter & McCarthy.
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8

Thank you Mister Micawber for the great information.

1985 is about a quarter of a century far, but in grammar metrics the book is not outdated.

I would like to keep such a reference book in my bookshelf for any serious student of English language should have one especially if he has the outlook for teaching.

-Kilani

9

I wrote “1985 is about a quarter of a century far, but in grammar metrics the book is not outdated.” Even though that is not pretty much time by language lifespan, it is a bit outdated if we consider the “breakthroughs” of corpus based studies. Spoken Grammar is the topic not considered in classical grammar books.

Throughout my study of English, I have been looking for treatment of daily English [grammar] but could found any, there might be but I could not. You would be capped if you study written English alone.

I have found “Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English, by Douglas Biber, Stig Johansson, Geoffrey Leech, Susan Conrad, & Edward Finegan (1999)” by chance. It is both pedagogical* and up to date; it is scheduled for my reading.

Thanks again Micawber for spinning this off

-Kilani

  • if I am not mistaken in choosing the right term.
10

Re: Spoken Grammar

Here is a short article about SG called “Ten criteria for a spoken grammar” by MC. I found it useful as a starting point.

There is this cool website for beginners, spokenenglish.org; just threw it in for bookmarking purposes.

-Kilani

11

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Your link doesn’t work, Kilani-- I get a 404 error.
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12

Here it is, MM:

spokenenglish.org/
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13

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Thanks.

14

Thanks to all of you

Well, with your comments here and my little research on grammar books, I am about to get hold of the great [reference] books in grammar.

The following should be great books:
Oxford Learner’s Grammar, by John Eastwood (Oxford University Press),
A Student’s Grammar of the English Language, by Greenbaum and Quirk (Longman),
Collins Cobuild English Grammar (Collins).

Which one is the best, in terms of:
1- clarity in explanation
2- examples: number, quality, etc.
3- AmE or BrE?
4- Comprehensiveness
5- Written vs. Spoken & Written grammar
6- Use of collocations
7- Language usage
8- Book presentation i.e. good typesetting, etc.
9- audience: students, specialists (applies to collins’)
10- feel free to break the list.

-Kilani

15

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Sorry, but I am only familiar with #2. I like it, as a reduction of the bigger grammar. I don’t recall much about collocations in it.

Generally, I have not liked the Cobuild efforts that I have looked through. Their Dictionary of the English Language sits gathering dust yet in easy reach of both myself and my students.

I hope others can give you more opinions.
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16

Thank you MM for your valuable feedback

I never used used any of Cobuil’s products.

Who esle?

-Kilani

17

Hi,

I’m not familiar with the dictionary in question, but here at the University of Leipzig, Collins Cobuild’s Advanced Learners English Dictionary is recommended by linguists like Buddhism by by Dwight Goddard. It features diamonds rating the usage frequency of a word. 5 diamonds - ‘water’, 1 diamond - ‘disintegrate’, no diamond - ‘picky’.

18

Thanks to computers, nowadays it is not difficult to rank words based on their frequency of use.
It is good to know, but that feature is of secondary importance when comparing different dictionaries.

For me, as an advanced learner of English, I would like to see these essentials:
1- clarity in defining the vocabulary, esp. when using a limited pool of selected words to define the vocabulary. Although, currently I do not care much. I access all the references via onelook.com
2- Lots of Examples! space is no concern when talking about electronic references.
3- Collocation-based examples (esp.this time).
4- Human voice recorded vocabulary. This is what sets electronic references apart from oldies. I never advise looking up a word without listening to how it is pronounced.

Other stuff are plus.

-Kilani

19

Hi Kilani,

I like Collin’s dictionary because I think it addresses all areas you mentioned but the fourth. But you can get it with an audio CD these days. The Oxford Advanced Learner’s also features a CD, but I’m afraid I can’t tell you anything about its content either.

Take care,

Ralf

20

Thanks Ralf for the suggestions