in or on the second place?

Hello Allifathima,

This thread is about the orfinal number.
Alan’s sentence was: Someone came second.
(here “second” is an adverb.)
After I asked someone what is the rule when we don’t have to use an article with an ordinal number.
Dozy answered: " I don’t know any rules…"
I continue on looking for any rule.
Now it seems to me this is very general almost a rule that if we consider an ORDINAL NUMBER AN ADVERB we can’t use any article. I STRESS I THOUGHT ONLY OF ORDINAL NUMBERS IF THEY ARE ADVERBS IN A SENTENCE.

Hello Kati,

When Dozy said he didn’t know any rules about this, he was telling you about his knowledge. (I couldn’t think of a rule about it either). He didn’t say there weren’t any rules about it and he wasn’t trying to mislead you.
You seem to have found a general guide, which is fantastic as it can help clarify what is possible with ordinal numbers as adverbs. Well done.

I know from following your other letters that you are under some stress at the moment, and I think that maybe you have misunderstood Dozy’s attempts at explaining things to you. He is really not trying to hurt you, upset you or argue with you. He is just trying to help.

Hello Bez,

Many thanks for your answer. There are different type of students and I am that kind of type who looks for “the why”,looks for a rule because if I find one it makes my learning easier.
It is very friendly that you defend Dozy ,probably I would do the same in your place.

Best regards:
Kati

I’m doing it to be even-handed, Kati.
I’m not taking sides. I’m telling you what I see as a third party reading the messages between you.

Dear Bez,

Sometimes the fate comes to help us.This evening I heard a poem on TV which gave me strength. Thanks God I found it inEnglish on the Google.
Poet:AGnes Nemes Nagy: Lazarus

Lazarus (English)

As slowly he sat up the ache suffused
his whole left shoulder where his life lay bruised,
tearing his death away like gauze, section by section
since that is all there is to resurrection.

Szirtes, George traslated.

In Hungarian she expresses :to rise again as difficult as to die. I try to rise again and to forget every bad.

Regards:
Kati

Nagy witnessed the full horror of the Holocaust and had friends who died in Auschwitz. I think she valued life and this poem demonstrates an understanding of how difficult it can be.

I’m glad you found strength from it.

Hello Bez,

I think, you think of another Nagy, because Ágnes Nemes Nagy wasn’t Jewish. In her twenties Antal Radnóti ( who was converted to the Christian faith) in spite of this he had bern deported and on the way he had been killed before he would have arrived in the death-camp. After the war when he had been exhumated, in his pocket they found his last poems which he couldn’t post. He felt himself a true Hungarian and I consider the best patriotique poem was written by him.
Here is:

I cannot know…

I cannot know what this land means to other people.

For me, it is my birthplace, this little nation embraced

by flames, the world of my childhood rocking in the distance.

I grew out of her like a tender branch from a tree

and I hope one day my body will sink into her.

I am at home. And if a shrub happens to kneel down

beside my foot, I know both its name and its flower;

I know who walks on the road and where they are going,

and what it might mean when in the summer sunset

the house-walls shimmer and drip with crimson-agony.

For one who flies above, this land is merely a map,

and does not know where lived Vörösmarty Mihály,

what does this map hold for him? factories and wild barracks;

but for me crickets, oxen, steeples, peaceful homesteads;

he sees factories in his lenses and cultivated meadows,

while I see the worker too, who for his work trembles.

Forests, singing orchards, grapes and cemeteries,

among the graves an old woman who quietly weeps.

And what seem from above train tracks to destroy

is a conductor’s house and he stands outside and signals;

many kids surround him, a red flag in his hand,

and in the courtyard a komondor rolls in the sand;

and there’s the park, the footsteps of long-lost loves,

the kisses on my mouth both honey and cranberry.

And walking off to school on the edge of the road,

to avoid being called on, I stepped on a stone;

look, here’s the stone, but from above, this cannot be seen,

there is no machine with which all this can be revealed.

For we are guilty too, as other peoples are,

knowing full-well when and how and why we’ve sinned so far,

but workers live here too, and poets, without sin

and tiny babies in whom intellect will flourish;

it shines in them and they guard it, hiding in dark cellars

until the finger of peace once again marks our nation,

and with fresh voices they will answer our muffled words.

Cover us with your big wings, vigil-keeping evening cloud.

Gina Gönczi translated.

Regards:
Kati

Hello Kati,

I think it’s the same poet. I didn’t say she was Jewish - I said she witnessed it, not was part of it. Anyway, that doesn’t matter. What matters is that you were moved by the poem.

:slight_smile:

Hello Bez

We had to know this poem by heart. Thanks God, because this poem is inexpressibly beautiful. Can you an English be aware of it? The original can be more moving but this translation is also good.
I asked that you wrote :“What matter is that you were moved by the poem.”

Regards:
Kati

ps: you can’t imagine what a difficult to write a letter on this iPad for me.But my laptop is under the repair and it will be ready after th20 of September. I never used it to write only to read. But now I have not other choice.

I hope that you wrote the month incorrectly and you will have your laptop before September, Kati!
9 months seems a very long time, so I think that is probably a typo.

Yes, it seems I am sleepy, because after 20th of January, and not September of course

Sorry.
Kati

Yes, it seems I am sleepy, because after 20th of January, and not September of course

Sorry.
Kati

Hello, of course i’ ve mistaken not September, but it will be rady after the20th of January.
I can’t sleep whereas i am very sleepy and tired. I try to fall asleep.

Good night.
Kati