"However fast you..." vs "No matter how..."

English as a Second Language English Vocabulary, Grammar and Idioms
1

Hi

Could you please tell me if the following pairs carry the same meaning?

I am grateful

Tom

2

Hello Tom,

I would say that the two items in each case have the same general meaning; but that the negative element in the second item means that it is likely (though not certain) to appear in particular contexts (e.g. discouragement, admonition, mockery, disparagement, deprecation, menace).

Thus:

  1. No matter how fast you run, you will never reach the office on time.

— e.g. “you may as well give up now”.

  1. No matter how loud you cry, no one is going to hear you.

— e.g. “you are helpless”.

  1. No matter how high a vulture flies, it can never compare itself with a hawk.

— e.g. “a vulture is naturally inferior”.

Have a pleasant evening,

MrP

3

MrPedantic wrote:
3. No matter how high a vulture flies, it can never compare itself with a hawk.

Hi, MrP

Do you think the above sentence is right?
Shouldn’t it be worded as follows:
Quote:
…a vulture can never be compared to a hawk
…a vulture does not compare with a hawk

Thanks !

4

Why not? ‘compare itself with a hawk’ = ‘be compared with a hawk’.

5

Do you think that the second item is more likely to appear in such contexts as “discouragement, admonition, mockery, disparagement, deprecation, menace” than the first?

[color=blue]

  • However much you whinge, you will not get another sweet.

  • I mean however much you like doing something you wouldn’t do it if you did it for nothing.

  • In the United States, however much the federal government is irritated by the state government, it can not attack its constitutional powers nor can it undermine its financial base.

  • TOLSTIKOV is among the favourites to win one of the big-money prizes in the ADT London Marathon on Sunday, but however much he makes he will struggle to spend it when he returns home to Siberia.

-However much he might like to duck out, he can not.

  • Because however much we might be reassured by Parliament that Charles’s constitutional position will be unaffected by his separation, most of us believe that the Prince will finally have to give up his right to the throne

Source: The BNC

6

I don’t agree. I think they carry exactly the same meaning, because, after all, they’re all claiming that something is impossible.

7

IMO,

However fast you may run = I can admit that you may run very fast, but… (partially positive)
No matter how fast you run = I have no interest in how fast you run and the conclusion is the same that…(totally negative)

8

The presence of a negative word in one clause or both clauses doesn’t necessarily give a sentence a negative tone.

For example, if someone exclaims, “Don’t you love it?!” they are being totally positive about whatever it is they’re praising.

9

I am sorry, Jamie, but I have to say the above comment seems to me not very relevant here to the present question.

10

Not necessarily:

“Don’t you love it?! I arrive here at six to meet him and he turns up at eight-thirty.”

11

But these examples are relevant:

  • However much you whinge, you will not get another sweet. (Negative meaning.)

  • I mean however much you like doing something you wouldn’t do it if you did it for nothing. (Negative meaning?)

  • In the United States, however much the federal government is irritated by the state government, it can not attack its constitutional powers nor can it undermine its financial base. (Negative meaning.)

  • TOLSTIKOV is among the favourites to win one of the big-money prizes in the ADT London Marathon on Sunday, but however much he makes he will struggle to spend it when he returns home to Siberia. (Negative meaning.)

-However much he might like to duck out, he can not. (Negative meaning.)

  • Because however much we might be reassured by Parliament that Charles’s constitutional position will be unaffected by his separation, most of us believe that the Prince will finally have to give up his right to the throne. (Negative meaning.)
12

Convincing and without argument. :slight_smile:

13

Mr P’s needs to rethink his proposal.

14

Hi Molly

I noticed that you didn’t bother address Tom’s question. Any particular reason for that?
.

15

I agree with Jamie:

Did I miss your reply to Tom?

16

Hi Tom

I agree with MrP that your sentences have basically the same meaning. It also seems to me that sentences using expressions such as ‘however much’ don’t necessarily have to be used in negative contexts, but that sentences with ‘no matter’ may have a greater chance of being used as MrP suggested.
.

17

That’s one for the record books.

Does that mean you disagree with Haihao?
.

18

What do you think?

Who do you agree with, apart from Mr P, that is? :lol:

19

I would like to lay an emphasis on the ‘may’ the original sentence carries. That’s why I agree with MrP’s positive and negative assessment. I also found Molly’s examples without ‘may’ were indeed all negative to me so I couldn’t on the other hand argue with her on this point.

20

Hi, Guys !

Could you answer my piffling question, please? :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Can I rehash this sentence
…it can never compare itself with a hawk.

into these sentences:

…a vulture can never be compared to a hawk
…a vulture does not compare with a hawk

Also, what would be the most natural of the choices ?
Many thanks !