Curious from German Health-Insurance-System

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1

Hi all!

In Germany there is a social system, I think most of you know that. One part of it is the Health Ensurance system and every employed person have to pay a defined amount to one ensurance-company. There are different companies and 20 years ago it depended on your job or the company you worked for which Health-Ensurance-Company you joined to. In the 1990th the German government decided that you can chose yourself the company which you would like to join to. So if you were employed you could change the ensurance-company everytime and if you started a new employment you could chose the ensurance-company which you would like to join to and the personal department of your company only had to announce you to the company you decided for. That is the rule.

Another rule is that if you are unemployed and don?t get any financial soppurt from the work-agency you are not longer member of one ensurance-company and you were possibly ensured as a family member by your husband or wife or parents if they were member of a company. That?s what happened to me for a few month recently.

Now, one week ago, I got a new job and the rule is that I join to one ensurance-company and become a member myself again. As I?ve been ensured as a family member at my wife?s company, which is a different from my formerly, and the lady from the personal department of my employer asked me which ensurance-company I?d like to join to, I decided -as didn?t have a own membership and to make it easy- that she should announce me at my wife?s ensurance-company. I?ve been working for one day only when I received a phone call from the lady of the personal department in which she explained to me that she couldn?t announce me at my wife?s ensurance-company as there were a rule that I first had to take my formerly company, must cancel that contract, having a period of notice, and can decide then for another company. As I hadn?t been dissatisfied with my formerly company I requested the lady from the personal department to announce me at my formerly ensurance company. Until now for me everything was allright!

But now something happened what makes me curious. As the lady from the personal department had spoken to both ensurance-companies, yesterday I received a letter from both. My wife?s company promises my wife and my a small advertising-amount when I change the company and my formerly company sent a letter in which stood that I have decided for them and that I must give this letter to my employer therewith the lady can announce me at their company. [color=red]Now I?m curious what happened here! :? As I have been no member at any company at my own, did my formerly company promise the lady from the personal department an amount in order to take influence on my decision, is the above described way of getting a member again the rule in fact or is that a sillyness of the German system only? :? I mean I?ve neither had a chance for a free decision nor have got an advertisement-bonus.

Has anybody an idea?

Michael

2

Hi Michael

First, I’d like to commend you on all the writing you’ve been doing in the forum! It’s quite impressive. And now this text! Wow! My compliments!

Regarding your situation and question, here is my humble opinion:
It seems to me that, first and foremost, you’ve become a “victim of bureaucracy” in this situation. Government bureaucracy, company bureaucracy. Possibly the lady from the personnel department is also a “victim of bureaucracy” to a certain extent in that she has to follow rules that don’t always make much sense. There are probably so many rules that she doesn’t actually know all of them. It is often the case that the staff know mainly the most basic or most often used rules and when exceptions to the rules are needed, the staff are either not aware that they exist or making a exception would create “too much” work. If the latter is the case, the lady in the personnel department may simply not have time and/or simply doesn’t feel like going the extra mile for you.

In addition, I also think those two letters you received were probably standard form letters. They’re letters that are probaby sent out a hundred (or even hundreds of) times a week by the insurance companies. The people responsible for generating them simply plug in names and a few other details. Other than that, your letters probably look exactly the same as thousands of other letters. There was no real thinking involved when your letters were “written”.

Michael, I know you’re interested in corrections. Here are a few points for you to look at:

  • personnel department
  • insurance company
  • in the 1990s
  • enroll in an insurance company
  • join a company (Don’t use the word “to”)
  • change companies (not “change the company”)
  • so that (not “therewith” - That sounds very German :lol:)

Amy

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Hi Amy!

I didn?t expect such a compliment, so I?m a bit out of breath. Nevertheless thank you for that and your corrections. I think there are some more errors but your points are really allright. About therewith: I?m used to say that I found that word in a German dictionary in fact (Jamie probably would say Germlish) :wink: . And I also think you?re right: so that is certainly better.

You?re right too, when you say that the single case worker isn?t responsible for nonsens like I decribed in my recent post. But I can?t help myself, always when I receive such letters from public administrations I feel like the main-charakter in H.G.Wells “1984” i.e. like having an advice board at my back: “Kick my A…” :roll:

Michael

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Hi Michael

I understand you perfectly. Bureaucracy is always annoying, but sometimes it’s much more than just annoying. It can create some very difficult situations. And there’s nothing worse than having to deal with low-level employees in a bureaucracy who feel they aren’t being paid enough to think in addition to what they were hired to do. :lol:

So, what’s going to happen? You have to get insurance from the previous insurance company, right? Are you going to give them a three-month cancelation notice on Monday? :lol:

The word therewith does in fact exist, but it’s not a word I would ever use myself. For me it sounds like a word that only a lawyer would use. And lawyers like to make sure that nobody can understand what they’ve written. We call that “legalese”. :lol: But I knew from the context of your sentence that you were thinking of the German word ‘damit’. That’s why I told you it sounded German. :wink:

Amy

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Hi Amy!

I don?t think that it has to do with low-level employees for me that is a problem of the high-level employees and the top dogs of departments. In this case not at the company I work for. Here everything is allright in my opinion. Perhaps I can report about that later. But please let me give you an example for the miserable situation in public administrations.
One very good is the work-agency: 15 to 20 years ago, when you got unemployed you went to the work agency, announced at the secretary clerk, who filled out a form with your data and announced you to your case-worker. The case-worker spoke to you immediately that day. That didn?t change for long time. Meanwhile nearly every half year the procedure will get changed. It may happen that you will have worked through the requirements of the agency one day -you have given them all information about you- and one week later the employees of the agency request you to visit them again because they have to fill out a new form concerning your skills. Okay you go to the work-agency-building and can?t find the due office because the intrinsic organisation had been changed too. :shock: As I hadn?t been there for a few month now I probably won?t find anything there. But one last highlight: Although I hadn?t got any money from the agency I?m used to give a notice of departure to them. How do you think that works? I mean as I am working from 7 o?clock in the morning till 16 o?clock in the afternoon I could do it via telephone. For this case the employees of the work-agency gave me telephone number. But always if I chose this number there is a nice voice from a call-replier informing me about the possibilities of Hartz IV and nothing else! :shock: :? :evil: :evil: :evil:

I mean, as you had built a house, you are also able to tell similar stories about German public administrations, aren?t you? :roll:

Did you ever read the comic Asterix conquers Rome? In that story Asterix had to solve 7 tasks. One of them was to catch a form from a public administration. :lol: The name of the administration?s buildung was in German: The house where stupids will be made In English the doghouse? That fits to German public administrations. :wink:

I don?t think that I would change insurance companies because I had been satisfied with my formerly. I?m angry only about the way such things in Germany works.

Amy, from what you told about therewith it could be a word for the German bureaucracy. :wink: :lol:

Michael

6

You’ve got a point there, Michael. All of the bureaucracy begins at the top. And how rigid the bureaucracy is — that is also determined at the top. When an organization is huge, then there are just piles and piles of “pre-packaged thinking”, i.e., all the rules and regulations. And then the low-level guys either aren’t required or aren’t allowed to think. And if they do, it often just creates difficulties for them.

When I bought my first PC, I bought it from a tiny little local company. I decided against a bigger, more well-known company because, as a person who’d never used a PC before, I was pretty sure I’d need support from time to time and I thought I’d be more likely to get good support from a little company with no bureaucracy. My decision turned out to be an excellent one. I didn’t have that many problems, but whenever something did happen, the problem was solved that same day. Not only was the service outstanding, but also uncomplicated. And I never once had to “talk to” a recording. :lol:

Actually, part of the reason I chose a contractor was so that I wouldn’t have to deal with public bureaucrats directly. At the time, I thought that was best since I knew nothing about house-building and, after all, a contractor is supposed to be an expert. After things started to go wrong, I had to find out about a lot of building regulations and norms. But a lot of that could be done using the internet. By the way, my house isn’t a pre-fab (pre-fabricated) house. (You asked about in a different thread.) The cellar is poured concrete, the supporting walls are brick, etc. It took over a year to build the house. The contractor is also the architect. And, he’s local. So, I never dreamed I’d have so many problems.

That’s true. :wink: Most bureaucracies are not very transparent. Since I work freelance at various companies, I also see corporate bureaucracy regularly. What I’ve experienced: The bigger a company gets, the more bureaucratic it tends to become. So, if a big company really wants to provide good service to its customers, it has to employ people who not only think about what they’re doing, but are also allowed to do that without being penalized for “rocking the boat” when an “individualized” solution is necessary.

Amy

PS
By the way, where you used the word “announce” in your post, it would be better to say “register (with)”.

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Hi Amy!

You are certainly right with your correction concerning announce and register. That is a mistake that probably happens in German to me too. :oops: But nevertheless I?ll burn it into my brains. 8) So that this error don?t happen to me again. Thank you.

Michael

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Hi Amy!

Hopefully it doesn?t disturb you when I come back to this theme. But first I?d like to tell you that this one of your assumptions is right as I could learn this week. Hmmmm… okay, if it is the usage!

But yesterday I could learn another interesting point of ideas of Insurance Companies. In the news on TV were reported that the German Insurance Company [color=darkred]Allianz intent to fire some thousands of employees although they make good profit. A header of that company argued that the company will [color=red]support the near to their clients. So they will centralize their agencies and fire employees. :shock: I wonder how that will happen. As they must send you standard writings yet, how do they intent to answer to your posts in the future when they fire their employees? Or do they intent to send only one standard letter in the furture and fire the whole staff while computers will send you the only standard letter there are left with the content: “Your rate to pay is:*****. Pay immediately!”

Is my opinion old fashioned or is that the future?

Michael