The use of "much as"

English as a Second Language What do you want to talk about?
21

Not if I decide that “big as”, “little as”, etc. are synoymous with something.

22

1a. Big as it is, it still isn’t quite the right size.
1b. Little as it is, it still isn’t quite the right size.

What in your opinion are “big as” and “little as” synonymous with, in those examples?

MrP

23

Does my opinion matter? It seems have only one way of interpreting these language items and you want to teach/prescribe that way to/for all of us.

24

You’ve said that we are not in accord, if you decide that “big as” and “little as” are synonymous with something.

What then are “big as” and “little as” synonymous with, in those examples, in your opinion?

MrP

25

To answer all your questions would be a full-time job. (I should think that asking them all is a full-time job.)

26

In which other places have you looked for help?

27

Hi Gerson

The word “although” is generally used in a sentence with two clauses. The word “although” generally comes at the beginning of its clause, and it shows that the idea in its clause is true but that the idea in the other clause also needs to be considered or is also true.

The word “although” joins two ideas, and the ideas in the two clauses often seem contradictory.

[i]- Although I’ve read his letter five times now, I still don’t understand what he meant.

  • Although he didn’t study, he somehow managed to pass the test.
  • Although he says he will reduce unemployment, he hasn’t provided any details about how he would achieve that.[/i]
    .
28

.

Wouldn’t “and” be more suitable there?

29

“Although” is a subordinator discourse marker that is used to make an unexpected contrast.

You can read about discourse markers here:

esl.about.com/cs/advanced/a/a_dmark.htm

30

Hi ! Molly

Thanks for your interest to help me.

…‘answer all your questions would be a full-time job’ :slight_smile: … In fact, I’m using a dictionary to understand words and expressions that sounds new to me… But, nothing is like to read the messagens posted in this forum about English grammar… I can learn more and better, for me is worthtly to read you guys changing messages as was about the subject ‘Although’… I learned a lot…

Tks, Gerson

31

Yankee

Yours explanations was clear… very clear to me. I believe that I learned. I’m writting some phrases, applying what I understood from you… Please, If you have time give a look in phrase and let me know if a wrote right… tks

Phrases:

Although has been a good teacher, he hasn’t been teaching well the class.
Although my car is new, it is broken.
Although I learned well speak English, I will always have brazilian accent.
Although … etc…

tks,
Gerson

32

Molly,

I clicked in the link you sended… and was perfect to help me undestand better…

Thanks a lot.
Gerson

33

Hi Gerson,

Please note that your sentence should read ‘I clicked (on) the link you sent/gave me…’

Regards,
Torsten[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC listening, photographs: Playing field hockey[YSaerTTEW443543]

34

Hi Gerson

You’ve definitely got the right idea, however I would suggest the following changes:

  • Although he is a good teacher, he hasn’t been teaching this class well.

  • Although my car is new, it is broken.==> It would be a little more natural to say something like this:
    “Although my car is new, it broke down yesterday.”

  • Although I learned to speak English well, I will always have a Brazilian accent.

Are you from Brazil, Gerson?
.

35

Hi Torsten

I had studied preposition a lot… but I still commit mistakes :frowning:

I wrote some phrases above, if you can give a look and correct, I’ll appreciate. In fact, I really appreciate all the help you’ve given me.

in - The toys is in the box. / Dean lives in New York / She came in the classe after you left / He spoke to me in Portuguese.
at - … look that car at the building. / She is at the apartment / The teacher is at a class, now./ At mathematics, I do better.
on - The picture is on the wall. / They bought a House on top the hill / she is here on business

tks,
Gerson

36

Hi ! Amy ( yankee )

I was seeing my mistakes… and analyzing very well… I’m speaking English like our Brazilian Indians speak portuguese… :slight_smile:

I commit a lot of little mistakes, those are important to give a fealing of connection and natural speak to the phrase, isnt’t it ?

Have you some suggestion to me, to improve my skills with those little mistakes…

About your question, Yes, I’m from Brazil, and you came to Brazil let me know, I have a nice house on a beach, (ubatuba beach), this house is in the midle o mountain, in Fact, into forest. The house has a porch, a swinpool, is very nice. And the beach, is amazing… you can get in the ocean, and when you get out of the ocean, you can get in a small river that’s close of the ocean, and take out the salt from the ocean. Actually, you can swin and drink the water, because it too clean.

Now, I say a did a lot of mistakes, but you make me write… what can I do… :slight_smile:

37

Hi Gerson

I think most people have some trouble with prepositions when they learn a foreign language. I think one of the best things you can do is to spend as much time as possible listening to English and also reading. This will help you with lots of things – including prepositions.

It’s also not a bad idea to learn language in chunks. In other words, learn phrasal verbs and other common phrases as a single unit, not as individual words.

Here are some suggested changes for your last post:

Yes, there were some little mistakes, but your writing is understandable in spite of the little mistakes, and that’s good!

By the way, I googled pictures of Ubatuba Beach. You’re right! It’s amazing! It’s absolutely beautiful!
.

38

(With apologies to Amy and Gerson for interrupting the discussion.)

  1. Much as I like your style, I know that many people take a contrary view.
  2. Little as I like your style, I know that many people take a contrary view.

If “much as” is synonymous with “although”, what does “little as” mean in #2?

MrP

39

I think your prescriptive head is forcing you to ignore something here. I’ll post my comment again:

I see “(for) much as” as a synonym, and as a unit.

Do you want to prescribe the way I should see things?

Again, I see “much as” as synoymous with “although” in meaning. I see a unit, a collocation, a chunk made up from “Much as + noun phrase/pronoun”. You see it differently. Allow me to use my method of remembering, and suggesting, the connection between items of usage and I’ll allow you yours. OK? Or is that too much for you to bear?

40

My original comment addressed this unqualified assertion:

This assertion is untrue. The structure in question is indeed concessive, which may explain why you interpret “much as” as “although”; but the sense of “though-ness” resides in “as”.

The adverb or adjective that precedes “as” (“much”, “little”, “big”, little", etc.) then qualifies the nature of the concession. This is why “much as” is not simply a synonym of “although”: the “much” provides extra information, just like the “little” in “little as…”.

(As well as the OED and the Cambridge dictionary that Amy mentions, Merriam Webster also supports this interpretation, under ²as.)

MrP