I don’t know myself, Nina. 
It just tingles on me that ‘nikoniko papa’ is more kawaii a papa and I am not sure myself if nikoniko could act as an adverb here.
There I thought it was just a beaming ‘papa’ :lol: . I mean, my father is nice, but I’m not sure he can pass as “more kawaii a papa”, he wears turban and all. I’m not sure about nikoniko as an adverb too. Maybe the difference is between spoken and written expression.
Have a pleasant evening,
Nina
I think I said “standard spoken British English”.
If I learn language X from a book, I expect the accompanying CDs to contain dialogues in a consistent form of X that is free from dialect words, regional grammatical forms, rural accents, comical mispronunciations, etc. (Unless of course they’re flagged as such.)
It will probably be a form of X that is close to that used by newsreaders, radio announcers, etc.; if I learn to speak it well, native speakers of X will understand me easily, no matter what kind of X they speak themselves; and it will give me the best chance of understanding a wide range of different forms of X.
What I don’t want, when I first learn X, is to pick up an inadvertent and incongruous rag-bag of regional pronunciations, accents, local grammar, dialect words, obscure slang, controversial usages, idioms from different forms of X, etc. Ideally, when I speak X, it should not draw attention to itself, or distract the addressee.
Replace X in the above with “British English”, and you have my meaning.
MrP
I share your views, MrP. I always ask myself how students who are part of a 1 year university exchange programme in Ireland get away with a more or less unclouded use of English. They are mostly aware of the tasty morsels of Irish English, but communicate in a way that would be universally understood.
Is there a type of ‘language holiday’ you’d recommend to eager learners suffering from time famine?
I think that may be beyond my area of pontification – I haven’t ever been on one of those. (Though lengthy visits to overseas offices can serve much the same purpose, now I come to think of it.)
MrP
From your description above, it sounds like you mean “spoken standard British English” (what I in the past have called “spoken-written English”). IMO, that’s not the same as “standard spoken British English” (i.e. spoken-spoken English).
Where does the model for their spoken exchanges come from? What is the source? If one needed to learn what Mr P calls “standard spoken British English”, which materials, etc. would he/she use, or refer to?
I’m not sure the distinction is useful.
If the spoken version can be described as “spoken written English”, then the written version can equally be described as “written spoken English”.
MrP
So, no speakers of standard English have rural accents, right?
I’m not sure the distinction is useful.
It is to those who don’t wish to obscure things and who wish, when speaking, not to be bombarded with prescriptive grammar rules that are based on the standard written form. If you want to base your spoken English on the standard written form, feel free, but please don’t tell us that it is “standard spoken English”. It isn’t.
Really? And how far back in time would you have to go to justify the use of the latter expression?
Looking at your description of what you call “standard spoken British English”, which of these example would not “fit” and why?
-Things going well, are they?
-He won’t be late I don’t think.
-She about six foot tall.
-wanna/gonna
-Jamie, he’s got a new hat.
-He’s got a new hat, Jamie.
-There’s a hairy thing on the green stuff.
-Dave coffee?
-He got killed.
-I was worried I was going to lose it and I did almost.
-You know which one I mean probably.
-A friend of mine, his uncle had the taxi firm when we had the wedding.
-Do you know erm you know where the erm go over to er go over erm where the fire station is not the one that white white…
You missed the proviso: “Unless of course they’re flagged as such”.
The point is not that rural accents should not be used in audio material, but that the learner should be made aware that they are rural accents.
For instance, if the CDs that accompanied a French course used the southern pronunciation of “vingt” without comment, the learner might adopt it. But if an Englishman says “vingt” with a southern French pronunciation in a shop in Paris, it sounds not at all like a southern Frenchman, and very much like a speak-as-you-spell rosbif.
MrP
It is generally agreed that speaking preceded writing.
Thus “written spoken English” is perhaps more reasonable than “spoken written English”.
MrP
You would need the rural accents of standard English to be flagged? Why?
Do you think Mr speak-as-you-spell rosbif would be understood nontheless?
When referring to standard British English, whose speaking and whose writing?
Again, referring to standard British English, you could justify the use of former term around 400 years ago.
BTW, would you use “thus” in “standard spoken British English”? Does your “standard spoken British English” have registers, etc.?
I suspect Mr Speak-as-you-Spell (or Speak-as-you-Misspell, in this instance) rosbif would get marginally better service if he pronounced “vingt” in the standard fashion.
MrP
Only in the most pedantic of establishments, right?
Tell me, in this “standard spoken British English” you speak of, do users speak as they would write and vice-versa?
So, getting into the guts of your “standard spoken British English dialect” would these examples fit the bill?
I’m going to have a glass of Merlot 82, me.
I’m having pie and chips, I am.
He complains all the time, he does.
It’s not actually very good is it this play?
We’re always getting it wrong, us?
She must be quite a good writer, you know.
Why I called you was that I wanted to ask you out.
What interests me with that is it’s free.
That’s what he said was the biggest turn off.
Where they always make a mistake is with the choice of location.
There seems to be a pretty strong Irish influence on your word choice, Molly. How come?
There seems to be a pretty strong Irish influence on your word choice, Molly. How come?
Could you be more specific? Which sentences sound “Irish” to you. And, are you, like Mr P, in the habit of asking a question before you’ve answered one that has been put to you?
I repeat:
Where does the model for their spoken exchanges come from? What is the source? If one needed to learn what Mr P calls “standard spoken British English”, which materials, etc. would he/she use, or refer to?
[/quote]
And not sure of the implications of what you’re saying here:
Are you saying that Irish English speakers would have to learn Mr P’s spoken standard British English if they wanted to communicate universally?
I suspect that a twinkle of irony (or a simple “Vingt?”) would be common to more than “the most pedantic of establishments”.
MrP