They were excited very much by the news that…
is acceptable.
Your sentence isn’t.
There is no point in trying to change the vocabulary.
???
Hi Bev,
Your comment -
- prompts me as one of the originators of the site and hence the forums, to add a note of caution. ‘Standard English’ is a very precarious expression to use and to explain as the world is now full of many different ‘Englishes’ It would be better to name these types and refer for example to British English. When the site was being created Torsten and I discussed what ‘sort’ of English should be the gold standard. As I was writing all the initial material. it tended to have a bias towards British English. But I feel we have moved on now and accept that in many countries where English is used they have imbued the language with their particular idiom. I agree that the users of the forum want to get their English right and will find it difficult to decide what is in fact ‘right’. We are not trying to be prescribers of the language but more advisers and I think it is important to hear how the language is used in different countries. The proviso is that these variations need to be labelled so that our users understand which is which.
Alan
Quite certainly, every word of what you said matters, but this quoted part is very relevant. It strikes such a note of assurance and tolerance that the general users feel honoured and tend to stay connected, and may even contribute with more interest and confidence.
Thanks, Alan, for clarifying the position as founder of the forums.
Hi Anglophile, no need to apologize. Thanks for trying to help me out.
I would like to know the general rule in this situation. It seems confusing to me
Is that very much + gradable adjective is unacceptable and vice versa ?
Madam Beeesneees, Could you share what your opinion on this matter ?. Thanks a lot.
You missed out the really relevant part, and the one to which you so often do not adhere until it reaches a point where your view is called into play:
“the proviso is that these variations need to be labelled…”
If there is a general rule of thumb which will apply across all vocabulary, I don’t know it, sorry. Some adjectives ‘work’, some don’t.
In fact you seem to have missed my assertion of the fact.
By the way, you can’t tell me what I should consider relevant. You know that it is dependent on one’s own view, and you know that you have often reiterated it especially in your own case.
I didn’t miss any assertions on your part. It had no bearing on my point.
But I can explain to other users (who are my primary concern) that in terms of standard English (which is most often their primary concern) you are not correct. I will continue to do so as necessary.
You can once again have the last word if you like. This has drifted far off the original discussion and will serve no purpose.
I’d advise you having a look at Usage Note here: thefreedictionary.com/very
Also the following could be of some help:
“
• I’m very bored. (?I’m very much bored.)
• John’s been very depressed for several days. (?John’s been very much depressed for several days.)
• She looked very disappointed. (?She looked very much disappointed.)
Q2. Which adjectives to use with very and which adjectives to use with very much.
As noted in the section above, past participle adjectives that describe mental states are generally modified by very, not very much. Most other adjectives are also modified by very alone. However, there are some common exceptions. For example, adjectives that describe extreme qualities are not usually modified by either very or very much (?very enormous, ?very much wonderful). There is another group of adjectives that needs a different modifier than very (fast asleep, wide awake, far apart, well known, etc.)
The core idea to me was: “The obvious answer is that there’s no universal rule. They’re mostly idiomatic and irregular, and tradition governs which ones allow very versus very much.”
Can’t provide the link, sorry.
( The two books consulted in preparing the answers were Swan’s Practical English Usage and Collins Cobuild English Usage.)
The ‘core idea’ bears out what I said, though the usage note appears to apply to instances of ‘very’ to replace ‘very much’ whereas actually the thread refers more to instances of ‘very much’ to replace ‘very’.
I’m sorry, but I don’t find the examples you quote useful
I’m very bored. (?I’m very much bored.)
I would only use ‘I’m very bored’ unless there were an addition…
I’m very much bored with …
John’s been very depressed for several days. (?John’s been very much depressed for several days.)
I would not use ‘much’ at all, though I would accept it with an addition as indicated.
She looked very disappointed. (?She looked very much disappointed.)
I would only use ‘She looked very disappointed’ unless there were an addition…
She looked very disappointed in/with …
So can I to users who are my immediate concern. Others know that you are talking about your own English, not the so-called Standard English.
Well, I provided the link to just show how entangled the matter is. Some adjectives that were prescribed to be used with ‘very much’ only, can nowadays sound valid with ‘very’. What you have to do is follow the trend, as there doesn’t seem to exist a stonewall rule.
My point was: why bear all the grammar burden on your shoulders, just move on and leave it to the geeks.
The point is, they don’t. Not unless or until it is pointed out.
Silence is golden!
Silence is misleading.