Hi,
Let’s get to the point. You wrote:
and that isn’t correct.
I really don’t need to be told about the use of the subjunctive in English.
Alan
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It is correct if one go by the dictionary definition of subjunctive which has already been given in this thread. Also I gave you an example of where it has been used before in prose. It doesn’t matter that the prose was written in the 16th century, the rules are still the same despite a few of the words’ being archaic.
It is correct in the same way as “I wish it were” is correct and “I wish it was” isn’t correct. Both are used and both are acceptable in today’s English though.
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Maybe “I hope this help” was considered 500 hundreds years ago. However, nowadays “I hope this help” is simply a mistake and should read “I hope this helps”. This won’t change no matter how often you quote ancient dictionary definitions.
TOEIC listening, talks: Welcoming a new business executive
Hi,
I should point out that the aim of this site is to provide learners with information about contemporary English and it is quite absurd to say that the ‘rules’ of 16th century English whatever they may be, are the same as they are today. Are you going to tell me that
is the prose of the 16th century? And what about
words' being archaic?
Alan
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That’s great as long as we remember that the original question of this thread was about modern idiomatic English.
TOEIC listening, talks: A business person tells his clients that he will be late for an appointment
I understand it might be considered a mistake by those who are unfamilar with the subjunctive mood but it might also be considered accidentally correct.
I am also aware that the purpose of this website is to provide assistance to those who are learning English as a second language. The purpose of my first post in this thread was to point out that “I hope this help” is technically correct based upon the dictionary definition of the subjunctive.
Again, you’ve misconstrued my argument. The rules which apply to the subjunctive are not “rules of 16th century English” because they are in common use today for example “If I were you” so I fail to understand how my argument is absurd.
You’ve misquoted me Alan. My first quote was “if one go by the dictionary” (the if changes the “goes” to “go” in that quote). The second quote has “being” which is a gerund and “words’” is the possessive form of “words”.
Very well but my first post was intended merely to back up Luis’ posts in this thread.
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Let’s get this straight. You say that after ‘if’ the third person singular of ‘go’ becomes ‘go’. You also maintain that in your phrase
being is a gerund and that words’ is in the possessive form, which suggests that being archaic belongs to words in a possessive genitive sense.
Can I ask whether English is your first language?
Alan
PS I am not misquoting because I am copying what you have written.
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Yes English is my first language. You did remove the “if” from your quote of my post by the way which could be interpreted as misquoting.
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Well, that’s a start. Perhaps you would explain to me how you construe what I have quoted verbatim in my earlier message
Let’s get this straight. You say that after ‘if’ the third person singular of ‘go’ becomes ‘go’. You also maintain that in your phrase
,
being is a gerund and that words’ is in the possessive form, which suggests that being archaic belongs to words in a possessive genitive sense.
Alan
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Alan, you are correct in your analyses of my post. Although what you want me to explain is unclear; all you’ve done is repeated what I explained in a previous post. Why I don’t know. However, may I ask what this has to do with the thread topic?
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I am trying to understand what you have written and am asking you to explain it. That’s what it has to do with. You are making comments on the site, which I consider quite ridiculous. Nevertheless I am showing the courtesy of taking it seriously and would be grateful if you would explain how you construe the ‘grammar’ and I think you should show me a similar courtesy by explaining it.
Alan
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Possibly I can help. The phrase: despite the words being archaic means: Despite the fact that the words are archaic This isn’t an example of the possessive. if one go by the dictionary, should be ‘if one goes …’ ‘Go’ is wrong.
Alan
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Very well. The phrase “if it go” or similar is in the subjunctive mood and therefore the verb is in its bare infinitive form. Secondly, you are right in that I am treating “being archaic” as a gerund and thus belonging to “words”.
As I said in my previous post, your analyses were correct so I don’t know what else needs explaining to you. You call my comments ridiculous yet claim you are showing me “courtesy”. If that be your definition of courtesy you can keep it.
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No Alan. It should be “if one go” since the verb in the subjunctive mood is the bare infinitive.
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If you wish to continue this pointless argument Alan, please do so by yourself because it is clear that you are dragging this out in an effort to bolster your ego. If you must get the last word, it is yours. I’ve said what I came here to say.
God bless you. <— There’s the subjunctive again Alan.
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You may be right or wrong in your soliloquy, but you are very wrong in coming here to try to search for a speck in others’ eyes when you have a log in your own eye on your debut.
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Another good case for banning, in my book–what a waste of your valuable time, Alan, Torsten.
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You are a very funny guy and I try to imagine the reaction you get when you actually speak like this in a real life situation ;-). If that be your way of speaking people will simply ignore you and I suggest we do exactly that here on the forum too.
TOEIC listening, talks: A writer is answering interview questions
This became something it didn’t need to be.
Ed, I respect your intellectual vigor, but modern English is what you need to learn. I cannot tell you how stuffy you will come across if you use the subjunctive all the time. It’s not dead. It’s not as dead as some say it is. It may never completely die. But it’s CERTAINLY not like Spanish.
“I hope this help” sounds illiterate. If you can’t bring yourself to use “helps,” please place “will” in front of help.
Most native speakers are only vaguely aware of the subjunctive, and there will be no convincing many of them that you are not just flatly wrong.
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Especially when he is.
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