Bizarre - or how to find a job in Germany?

Hi Torsten!

A well chosen point of time to speak about the EU! Did you see the football- (soccer-) match this evening. It seemed to be a match between two european football communities : AC Milano-FC Barcelona. Looking that game i have been enthusiasmized about the range of skills the players showed. I?m used to say that football have won with the UEFA Champions League. Did you watch the names of the players: ronaldinho, serghinho, kaka, valdes, and so on… they all are southamerican players. Especially the name ETO?O i want to mention , an Ethiopian player. So, why do we speak about Europe.
Europe is an actually theme for us Europian. A Europian Union will make us Europian a big fortune, some of them you mentioned in your latest reply. An other is: the power of a common Europe might be immense. But sometimes i wonder what the power will become used for, what is the price for it and what happens behind the scenery?
Looking on this site as well as having a look to the today?s evening football game i have one more question: Could Europe be old fashioned? Also have i experienced an example i would like to tell you: Last year i worked for a machine factory that is the property of an economic connection ( i avoid to tell the name here). I?ve been told that two of the connection?s owners are the familiys Bush and Bin Laden! I?m not really sure that this information was correct but correct is that the concern is an ww concern. Once in a month the administrator of the Europian part of this connection came from Belgium to check the business?s profit.
So the European Union is a political community. Could it bring any safety to the people? What do you think?

Regards

Michael

Hi Michael,

As you say, a community is a group of people with common goals and rules. People always have connections with and to other people and organizations. I don’t see the EU as much as a political or economic entity. What I see is the benefits a ‘united’ Europe might bring to its citizens. You mentioned our site and our ‘e-community’. When we organize our first face to face meeting we can select any country within the EU because this means at least those forum users residing in one of the (soon) 27 EU member states can travel to that country without any additional paper work. (and maybe they won’t even have to exchange any money).

So, I’m trying to focus on the more immediate advantages of the EU. I could as well talk about the many disadvantages the European Union brings about. Every new development might have its drawbacks but looking at the bright side means we will be happier and we will come up with new ideas. Yes, I think if we all pull together we can learn from each other and compare solutions and approaches to combine the best of them in a new way.

As for the connections the Bush and Bin Landen families might have with parts of the world economy - it might be difficult to tell how exactly they built their empires (I still think there is a substantial difference in the political and social system Bush and Bin Laden represent). It is quite clear that there must be connections between the political elites and the leaders of the industry. But we could as well use the freedom we have and create our own community. I’m still amazed by the fact that the Internet and the English language enable us to communicate with anyone in the world. I see the development of the EU as a part of this process…[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC listening, question-response: How come you didn’t go to the leadership conference?[YSaerTTEW443543]

Hi Torsten!

Did i do anything wrong? Did i come across pessimistic? I would like going on communicating on this site. But anyhow i can?t defend the feeling that i?ve failed!
Could you please tell me if in which way?

Thanks in advance

Michael

Hi Michael, you have expressed some very interesting thoughts, I especially like your suggestions regarding the Mars strategy. So everything is OK, just keep on communicating with us. You can talk about anything you want as long as it is in English, we’re always here for you. Communication is an ongoing process and as long as you ask questions, you will always get some type of response.
What do you think?

Regards
Torsten[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC listening, question-response: Who’s going to assist me with this project?[YSaerTTEW443543]

Hi Torsten!

May be that it has been my impression only! But regarding my interrupting this conversation i have a little bit a bad conscience! Especially when i have a look to the topic “Where is ESL going…”! There is written about missing the personal contact! Some of my replies i wrote in an provoking way intentionally! May be that my expactations had been to much! But thats what about online learning could not be exciting!
Yesterday evening while my wife was surfing at the ebay i scetched a long text that goes on with our theme we had last. But now i first will work with my horse. ??ll tip it in later.

Thanks for your quick response!

Will be back later!

Michael

Hi again Torsten!

One of your suggestions in your latest reply was to look on the bright of life! That reminds me a little bit to Monthy Python?s Life of Brian! You can remember the final scenery? They were hanging at their crosses and the Optimist began singing “Always look at the bright sight of life…!”? I think i?m not straightly a pessimist if i didn?t agree to him!
Yes, you are right when you speak about travelling to the East of Europe. Years ago when you arrived at the border between East and West - mostly it was between BRD and DDR - later it was Germany East - Poland- you thought that on the other side of the border would be a different extraterrastrian world. To cross the border you had to fill out documents and you had to be ready for controlling yourself and your lagguage! After you passed the borderline you always felt watched anywhere! Okay, that?s history and very well as it is now!When i was there they had two currencies old and new Zloty. Like i told in my introduction that had been ten of my most pleasent days in my life!
Thinking about Western Europe I had experiences with Netherlands. It wasn?t difficult passing the borderline. Onliy when in Germany had been particulary holiday you had to wait in a car damming up but usually you could step from BRD to Netherlands after a short look into your passport by the border guardians if you were not a wanted person. Now there are two pillows and a sign board showing you that there is a borderline. By the way, i experienced anything like that when i?ve been 19 years old. Arrivied at the borderline between France and Belgium as good old German we stopped our car because there were some red lights above the highway. Beside the highway sat a borderguardian in his cabin. Seeing that we stood still in front of some red lights he started laughing and it took some time before he gave as a sign to pass the line. :evil: We spent our holidays in Northern France and we often passed that border without stopping once again. We showed our passports when we arrived the German border again first. Yes, it is much easier to travel inside Europe since the borders have been opened.

Only, i think, i must be allowed to ask whether this had been really the intentions of the politicians or if there might be some other reasons for opening the borders? Is it pessimistic to ask this questions or might be the answers helpful for handling the future?

Drawbacks are for the pessimists only. For a realist there are consequences only which the realist can learn to handle them.

Regarding my reply that contains the example of football: it wasn?t meant negativ or pessimistic. I only wanted to show that in several areas of life the development is in front of the politic for many steps. Exactly the same might be said watching the families of George W. and Osama if that what if been told will be right. But there are also a lot of differences and the duty is to eliminate them. One step certainly might be to speak one language only. The industrial nations prefer the English because it is the most approved in buisiness and technik.
I myself do so too because i have a little experience now and i think it is a very interesting one! Or did you prefer to read I like it?? :roll:

Regards

Michael

Hi!

Sorry for coming across with this theme again but I have to cry my anger into the space andf if you don?t want you mustn?t go on reading this.

It is a point that fits to the headline fo this topic “[color=orange]Bizarre or how to find a job in Germany”

How to find a job in Germany?
First you have to watch many sources where jobs will be offered. You must compare the requests on the job to your skills and knowledges and figure out which of the offered jobs could suit.
Than when you have figured that out mostly you write a letter of application due to the offered job. How do you do that?
1. You introduce yourself short
2. You express your opinion to the discribed requests short
3. Maybe you shortly describe your goals for the future
4. You requires the employer to invite you for an interview
You can be sure that this isn?t a work that you can do during a few minutes because you must do that in a easily visible and easy understandable way so that it attracts the reader?s attention and don?t bore him.
Then you have to work over your CV. That isn?t as much if the datas are actually you only have to update the dates of writing.
At last you add your certificates of school lessons and your work certificates to that put your whole application into one or two files or in an envelope and send it to the employer. To this point of time everything is good.
But now the mess begins. Of course the employer has many else duties than to answer immediately after he recieved the application so a little time span passes by before he answers. Often enough isn?t his opinion that you are not the right one to fillful the job and that he shares you when 3 month min had gone by if he does it at all. More or less you will become familar with that.
But what makes me really angry is why in Heavenbuttockthunderstorminthehell do they send me a form for applicants to fillful with all the datas you gave them in your letter of application??? :o :o :o
I mean they certainly uses your datas when they gave you the job and I think it is early enough to fillful this form when you have got the job or am I wrong here?

Michael

Hi Michael,

It’s good to have brought up this top again because most of our users want to improve their English because they want to advance in their careers. I completely understand your frustration - if a potential employer asks you to fill in a form and provide the same type of information you have already given them - it can only mean one thing: They have not paid attention to your application and/or CV. So, the question is how can we get an employer to listen to us? I mean, how can make sure they will read our CV and get interested in our qualifications and expertise? I have my own suggestions and really would like to share them with you. To illustrate, I’d like to point out the following: It is a fact that a lot (if not the majority) of vacancies are never advertised in public places such as the newspaper or the Internet. Would you agree with this statement? If so why do you think that is?
Let’s take it one step (or rather one question) at a time, OK?

Regards
Torsten

PS: I hope it will also be OK with you if I point out some grammar/spelling issue. Please check the following words:
than vs. then
receive

date (singular)
data (plural)
datas (non-existent)
fulfil vs. fill in/fill out

Please, understand that it is NOT important how ‘correct’ your English is now. What really counts is the fact that you are making progress and more importantly, that you are already capable of expressing your thoughts. And your thoughts are more valuable and important than grammar rules! So keep on posting and I’m sure Alan, Amy, Jamie, Conchita and all the others will help you with your grammar too…
What’s more important than your current level of English is the level you will have achieved in a few weeks![YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC listening, talks: Reporting on a company’s stock price movements[YSaerTTEW443543]

Yes Torsten, everything is fine, also your advice to my spelling/grammar errors. They happened to me because I am really angry. So I didn?t really had a look to my gammar. But first about the errors:
You are right in both cases : the first of my [color=red]Then?s is wrong and also the spelling of rec[color=red]eive. Thanks for your advice.

Now about my reason for being angry:
Actually, three weeks ago, I found a job offering in the job market of the work agency. As the date of the offering refered to the Dec. 2005 I sent an E-Mail to the employee in which I asked whether the offering is up to date. One day later I?ve got an E-Mail in which the employee confirmed the actuality of the offering and required me to send him/her my letter of application and also made sure that he/she would answer inbetween the same week. So I putted my documents together and sent them via E-Mail to him/her immediately. Nothing happend that week and nothing the next week too. Yesterday fetching my Mails from the Online brief-case I found a news from him/her:

"Dear Mr. Otto,

Thanks for showing interest in our company. We enjoy your application!

After reviewing your application we can imagine your collaboration with us.

Please fillful the added form and send it back to us. After its receiving at us we will contact you again immediately.

Kind Regards!
…"

As I?ve got such answers not only once and hardly ever anything happened I wonder why they often send such adding forms although they atmost know that they don?t want to employe me? Now the onus is on me spending a lot of time to fillful that stupid form and probably nothing will happen!

That is what I hate about applying!

Michael

P.S.: For me the grammar does matter and therefore I enjoy every correction you all can give me. Thanks!

I frequently get responses from translation agencies that then request I fill in an electronic form that asks for the same information that’s on my r?sum?. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. It means they want your information in their database, so that they can use it more easily and match it with the right jobs. Of course, they could have a secretary input that data, but why should they, when you’re the one asking for a job?

Nowadays some US companies require that you apply online and never ask you to send any paper at all. This is done with entry-level jobs a lot, and with jobs where they need to verify that you have minimal computer competency.

I am in the middle of reading an extremely informative, absolutely hilarious book called Confessions of a Recruiting Director by Brad Karsh. It’s really written for college students, but any experienced employee will enjoy it and learn from it. We always wonder what happens to our r?sum? after we submit it, and this man gives us the shocking truth. He also explains very well how people should network, how they should interview, etc. This guy has been the recruiter on the other side of the desk, and he knows what his type are looking for. I recommend this book to absolutely anyone.

Also a couple of corrections, Michael:

One day later [color=red]I’ve got an E-Mail in which the [color=red]employee confirmed the [color=red]actuality of the offering.

[color=red]I’ve got – It should be I got, because you mentioned the timeframe during which you got the message.

[color=red]employee – You meant employer.

[color=red]actuality – This word means Wirklichkeit, or reality. You should have said currency.

So, you should have written, “One day later, I [color=blue]got an e-mail in which the [color=blue]employer confirmed that the offer was still [color=blue]current.”

Yes , it is really important to know how to apply for a job. Not only the experience is what counts -there are many other applicants too who have one?s knowledges- more important is to know how you can sale yourself to the employers. And I mean “[color=orange]sale” because at this times everything seems to depend on a big deal. Please don?t send me to the hell that is my opinion only.

Torsten, what makes me wonder here is: why do you speak about a few weeks? I think I have made some progress in the last few weeks but to learn the English it would take me a whole life and I?ll never be able to say I have learned everything about it. It is similar to my hobbyhorse you will never really understand her.

That are only some thoughts about a second language. I liked going on with the main theme!

Michael

Jamie, on the one hand I perfectly agree to your explanation and also see one aspect you mentioned about the US companies. For me it is the logical consequence if they try to figure out some competency. What I have problems with is that often the employers require r?sum?s and then have their own electronic forms. When that happens to me I can?t defend the impression that they don?t appreciate the work I have had with my CV or r?sum?. What do they think about the work that I can do for them if they employ me. Not that this could be important for them but what about me?

I think I have an imagination about what happens to all the applications that received to the employer. I can imagine that this book is really a hilarous lecture.

Thank you, Jamie, for this good advice.

Michael

Everything is a bureaucratic hoop, and everything is some kind of test. They always require a cover letter, but most cover letters are never read. They require a r?sum? because they want to see how sloppy or fastidious you are, and how you present yourself on your own. Is the formatting good or bad? Did he misspell any words? Did he write a job description r?um? or an achievement r?sum?? Then the electronic form is raw data for them to enter into their database.

These are all things you have to think about and learn to deal with. If you let them see it annoys you, then you are already putting your application into the rejection pile because of a sensitive ego.

Interesting idea! I?ll consider it before I complain!

Michael

Jamie, as I understand you are working freelance. How does this influence the contents and structure of your r?sum?? I mean, how do you get new contracts and jobs? Also, do you have a r?sum? which highlights your qualities and experiences as an ESL instructor and one that focusses on your translation skills? How do you market and advertise your entire language service portfolio?[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC listening, talks: Introducing cost saving measures[YSaerTTEW443543]

It’s even more complicated than that. I do language instruction, translation, and previously I was an advertising proofreader and a magazine editor. I have also done cultural training and resettlement, and sometimes I am asked to teach new cultural trainers. Usually that last one is more like mentoring than like teaching.

Naturally, you have to have different r?sum?s for each type of work. I have one for translation, one for teaching, and one for business. They all have more or less the same information, but it’s arranged differently. I have to include it all, because some of the translation agencies also have language instruction and cultural training.

I don’t do any aggressive marketing of my services for one main reason: There is no time. The only difference between being employed and self-employed is that self-employed people own their own jobs. There is a physical limit to how much they can do, and to how much they can earn. My schedule seems to be that in January and February I have a scary lack of work (this year I made more in the stock market in those months than I did working), and then by April I am turning work down. With this situation, I can’t physically do any more, so I don’t market beyond that. Most of my work comes from personal connections and from agencies that have found me in the American Translators Association directory. My passive ATA listing seems to get me more work than direct marketing does.

Hi Jamie, I think that is really the biggest difficulty if one will start working freelanced. Another problem, in my opinion, is how to reach the start capital. I mean I often thought about freelance but the two biggest problems I figured out were always 1. how to find customers and 2. how can I finance the tools I needed. I believe that it a little bit depends on good luck and economic requirements whether you?ll find customers. So if one starts his freelance he/she can do that only when the market requests his services or produkts. I remember the public campaign before the last choice of the German government. The former government forced freelance working that way they paid a short rate if an unemployed people would have build an “Ich AG” and many people did that without having any clue whether they could sale their services or produkts and how they should sale that and failed of course.Caused by that many people had made lots of debts. So, at the time of the public campaign, the former opposition complained about the insolvency of lots of companies and privates and also because that people who found an “Ich AG” became unemployed again.
The second problem I see is how to get the money one need to procure the neccesary equipment. For example if I tried to start a freelance work I needed an amount of 20 thousand Euros, valuable! Not calculated the costs of the everyday?s life costs for the next few month. So to earn a life would be nearly unachieveable. What often makes me wonder when I hear from persons like you that you don?t have any work for one or two month (you can?t earn your life during that time) is how high do you calculate that into your prices you require for your work? Do you have a percentage for that? It?s also a question to every self employed!

Michael

Michael, there are all different kinds of freelance work. Some of it has a lot of overhead cost, and some of it doesn’t. The work I do has virtually no overhead cost, other than my computer. I’m also lucky to live in the United States, where the government doesn’t require people with freelance businesses to register, pay a lot of money for a permit, etc.

In fact, here people with freelance businesses don’t even have to be 18. Here are the websites of two girls who started business with almost no overhead when they were 10 years old! (They’re now about 18 or 19, I think.)

thechocolatefarm.com

wristies.com

These girls just had an idea, or an invention, and they started work. (The Chocolate Farm’s website was created by the girl’s 14-year-old brother. On the Wristies site, check out the picture of the girl at her lawyer’s office when she signed the trademark application. It’s funny!)

Another advantage here is that it costs only about $35 to $50 to form your own corporation (GmbH), and the forms don’t limit your corporation to one line of business or make you pay extra fees for each business you go into, so we get off cheaper that way.

I can’t work the cost of my tough months into my prices the rest of the year. Impossible. I’m competing with the whole market, so I have to keep prices competitive. The way you deal with lean months is to diversify! I know very few freelance workers who do only one thing for a living. In the early months of the year, when some of my clients were too busy to take their English lessons, I had enough money from teaching to keep body and soul together, but it was tough. I made up for the shortfall by doing more translation (I was lucky that it came) and by making money on the stock market. In the fat months, you have to budget for the lean months.

Some people are really creative at finding ways to make money. One of my sisters has a business that you would never think could make money: She manufactures and sells lacemaking equipment, shipping it all over the US and the world, even as far away as Japan. This is not a bad business for her, but she always has her eye open for other opportunities. Once she was at some lady’s garage sale and spotted a box of old lacemaking magazines. She bought the whole box from the lady for $25. Then she went home and put the magazines on eBay one by one. Altogether she made more than $250 from that little box of magazines.

If you want to watch freelance business in action, go to a poor Mexican neighborhood in a large US city. (I assure you that most of those people don’t stay poor for very long.) For a couple years I saw a man pedaling a very old restored Good Humor (= Algida) tricycle around on the hottest days selling ice cream and special Mexican snacks to the kids. When the weather got cold, he changed his offering, but he was still in business. I guarantee you that this man will have his own store in a year or two. I saw another man who wanted to start a lawn care service, but he doesn’t have money for a truck. So he rigged an old bicycle up to pull a very old lawn mower and some other equipment, and he pedals out to the rich neighborhood and cuts grass. This is another guy who experience tells me will have an established-looking business in a year or two. African girls come here with nothing, start hair braiding salons, and use the money to go to university (as well as to support their parents back in Ghana or Senegal and to bring their sisters over to help in the business). This business requires nothing but clean hands.

I love watching the development of a typical business in the black neighborhoods here. A guy will want to start a business, but he doesn’t have any money. He takes over an old abandoned gas station (very cheap) and puts up a handmade sign that says, “Earl’s Hand Car Wash”. He can already charge much more than the regular car washes, because he has no machines that scratch the finish of the car. He’s offering a luxury service. Soon he’s got enough business to hire a few helpers. After a while, he puts up another sign that says, “We steam clean engines.” He’s bought himself some equipment with his savings. Meanwhile, nothing’s going on in the office of the building, so he puts in a couple racks that he fills with pop, chips and gum. Kids on the way home from school buy these, and soon he can expand that offering until he has a real store. In about three years you can’t even recognize the business as the same one he originally started. Plus he’s providing work to other people.

Hi Jamie, all your examples make perfect business (or rather common) sense. What about you, have you ever thought of starting your own business?[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC listening, talks: Announcing the opening of a new cafeteria[YSaerTTEW443543]

Yes. I’ve thought a lot about starting my own business. The business I have now isn’t the one I thought about starting.