You are clearly a sentimentalist.
MrP
So are you saying that all sentences are invented/manufactured anew each time they are used?
I’m clear, and that counts for something.
You forget: we are teaching structure.
MrP
Can you isolate it from meaning?
You can reduce irrelevant meaning.
MrP
And end up with TEFLese examples.
Is ‘there is a pen on the desk’ TEFLese, Molly?
If so, why?
And what would be a better way to use real language that shows emotionally involvement with stationary equipment on the table?
Perhaps emotional involvement with mobile equipment on the table would resolve this issue?
One’s cards are on the table, Ralf. 
Tell me, why does our speaker need to say “There is a pen on the desk”, IYO, Ralf? What’s his motivation for doing so? What communicative act does he want to achieve?
When you say “stationary” there, do you mean immobile?
You have no answers, Molly; all you do is ask. But well:
This is a good example for a TEFLese sentence. Where did you learn it?
- to tell you that there is a pen on the table
- he wants to point to the fact that there is a pen on the table
- in a situation where someone is looking for a pen you could state the obvious (Tom, Charles, MrP, Jamie, Heather, Hank and I have made this point before), and you could add an exclamation mark to make it more obvious
Again:
.
.
.
Is ‘there is a pen on the desk’ TEFLese, Molly?
If so, why?
And what would be a better way to use real language that shows emotionally involvement with anything on the table (stationeries, stationary equipment, Norns etc.)?
In the world of TEFL, probably.
IMO, yes it is. Because: it seems “designed to illustrate the workings of a simplified grammatical system” and bears "a beguiling but ultimately quite false similarity to real English”.
And what would be a better way to use real language that shows emotionally involvement with anything on the table.
The better way would be the more usual way, wouldn’t it? I’ll take a stab at it.
“On the table.”
“Over there.”
"Open your eyes! (points toward the table).
“Here.” (points toward the table surface).
BTW, MrP states that the sentence in question was presented for the purpose of learning structures and not for undertsanding meaning. Do you agree with him?
Al final - thank you for your answer, Molly.
I agree with him. But if you wanted to make an emphatic point by stating ‘there is a pen on the table’, it’d be perfectly possible to do so.
.
Edit: And probable, too.
What’s possible and what’s probable are interesting issues in language teaching and learning. Those words and the debate go way back, but there’ still a lot of people who only want to talk about the possible.
BTW, TEFLese is full of possible sentences.
Hi Molly, do you distinguish between TEFLese and TESLese?[YSaerTTEW443543]
TOEFL listening discussions: A conversation between a research professor and a student[YSaerTTEW443543]
Sometimes.
Can you give me an example that shows the difference between both terms?[YSaerTTEW443543]
TOEFL listening discussions: Where does this conversation most likely take place?[YSaerTTEW443543]
Check out Mayer (2003) in Input for Instructed L2 Learners . By Anna Nizegorodcew. Google books.
A question for you, T?
Is that true? Are German EFL grammars full of TEFLese - in the sense of the term used by Willis, above?
And so the illustration is not actually a illustration of a flower, but an illustration of an idealised flower, right? Will that illustration help me choose which flowers to buy if I want to give a gift?
From what you know of TESLese, Torsten, how would you say it compares with motherese?