This is funny and horrible at the same time (Dresden School for British English)

English as a Second Language What do you want to talk about?
#1

I’ve just found this language school which is based in Dresden and I think their philosophy is both funny and horrible at the same time: dsbenglish.de/our-services/w … -about-us/

How can you be as stupid as saying that British English the is more accepted form for business situations? More accepted than what? What does ‘more accepted’ mean and what exactly is British English? Are they referring to ‘RP’, received pronunciation which is spoken by about 3% of the British population? Apparently the owners of that school don’t know anything about business and the English language.

I personally would never use the services of that school because they are so short-sighted, they actually should be prevented from operating in a city like Dresden which is international and innovative. The owners of The Dresden School of British English should go back to Great Britain where they can promote ‘British English’ to their country fellow people, especially those who live in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Or maybe they could open branches all over North America where can teach the Americans and Canadians ‘real English’? What about the Australians and the New Zealanders, could they benefit from this school’s services too?

TOEIC listening, question-response: Does the CEO visit the office often?

#2

Torsten, I would bet that the people running the school aren’t even British. When I helped run a school in Eastern Europe, our reputation was so good that locals starting their own schools used to tell people that we would teach them English wrong and so they had to go to their non-native teachers to learn real “British” English. They were playing on the notion common among Europeans that the British speak “English” and the Americans speak “slang” or “some kind of ruined English”, as I once heard a European call it.

Often, when non-native speakers run a school like that, they will even hire relatively unqualified British natives who speak horrible English in preference to well-qualified Americans or Australians who speak perfect English.

But I’ll tell you who does agree with their fallacious notion that British English is “more accepted for business situations” – the ESL textbook publishing industry! Even though the US has the world’s largest economy, business ESL textbooks in American English are quite rare even in the United States. The publishers create business ESL books almost exclusively in British English, and they merely import them to the US. So we are often in the ridiculous situation of having textbooks that teach the wrong business terminology (such as “turnover” instead of revenue) and that teach cricket and soccer idioms for use in business meetings. And you get really tired of every book having a story about Richard Branson.

Once I complained to a publisher’s rep in the US about this, and she claimed that there’s “really no market” for business ESL textbooks in American English. That has to be an insane lie, because I can’t imagine that people in East Asia and especially Latin America are clamoring to learn British business English instead of American.

However, nearly every business ESL book available in the US is an unadapted import from the UK. The same publishers go to great trouble in adapting their grammar textbooks, to the point of changing “Ann” to “Mary”, even though “Ann” is a perfectly common name in the US, but they don’t try to adapt their business texts at all.

#3

Hi

I want to write something about 'British English". The British English is welcomed by all over the world except few people in some parts of the world. The British Bussiness English texts are very good when comparing with American Bussiness English.

So it is available all over the world. The business American English has to be made for some people needs, it is not in use. Turnover=Revenue both are same.

Thank you
S.Shanthi

#4

Turnover and revenue are NOT both the same.

For two-thirds of the world’s native English speakers, “turnover” mainly means the rate at which employees enter and leave a company. It can also mean how fast inventory enters and leaves a store or warehouse. It can also mean money passing through a company but not necessarily staying there.

So “turnover” is a very vague term. “Revenue” means how much money a company has earned.

It appears the British have taken just one of the meanings of “turnover” and misapplied it to revenue (“revenue” is the older term, in fact, while “turnover” used in the same sense is British slang). So referring to “revenue” is clear, but referring to “turnover” leaves the reader or listener wondering, “Which kind of turnover?”

#5

You really are a master of the art of the sweeping generalisation sometimes, Jamie.
Where does ‘it appear’ that ‘the British’ have indicated that turnover (one meaning of which is the amount taken by a company within a set period of time) and revenue (income) are the same?

#6

The previous poster claimed it was the same, and I frequently see “turnover” used in British business publications and business ESL texts as a replacement term for revenue.

#7

The previous poster can hardly be described as ‘the British’!

#8

Have a look:

Results of your search

Your query was

turnover
Here is a random selection of 50 solutions from the 2891 found.

A64 676 From a monthly turnover of 400 roubles at the end of December 1922, one of them was to rise to a turnover of 2,000 by March 1923.

AJP 61 British Manufacture employs 300, mainly at Grantham, Lincs and has a turnover of between £20m and £30m a year.

AL2 154 PREMIER Consolidated Oilfields yesterday reported a 24 p.c. fall in full-year profits to £8.91m pre-tax, on turnover 24 p.c. lower at £32m.

ALV 449 Turnover rose 3.1 per cent to DM 32 520m, with acquisitions accounting for about two thirds of this increase.

ALV 501 turnover rose from £947.8m in 1990 to £968m.

ALV 592 For the nine months ended 30 September 1991, profits were £735m, up 16 per cent on the previous year, and turnover rose 2 per cent to £3435m.

BMK 422 Turnover rose slightly from $2830m to $2837m.

CBD 1127 Turnover charged from £495m to £524m and earnings per share climbed from 3.5p to 5.1p.

CBT 2137 Moreover, any initial pick-up in the market is likely to be revealed in higher turnover rather than higher prices, because of the overhang of unsold properties and continued repossessions.

CDF 1383 This is negotiated on an individual basis, but Mike Lester has been trying to relate all new contracts to turnover between a range of £5,250 (turnover £80,000) to £7,500 (turnover £200,000 plus).

CDF 1517 Turnover

CLA 301 Ikos Systems Inc has reported second quarter net losses of $552,000 down from losses of $1.3m last time, on turnover that rose 61.7% at $4.9m; mid-term net losses stood at $2.1m up from losses of 41.8m last time, on turnover that rose 26.9% at $8.1m.

CLC 297 Superconductor Technologies Inc has reported first quarter net losses of $207,000 down from losses of $656,000 last time, on turnover up 83% to $1.5m.

CNE 203 Compression Labs Inc has reported fourth quarter net losses of $1.9m down from losses of $17.7m last time, after $18.9m non-recurring charges, on turnover up 45.1% at $31.2m; net losses for the year to December 31 stood at $3.3m against losses of $15.1m last time, on turnover that rose 48.4% to $107.8m.

CNV 305 Retson , Virginia-based Network Imaging Corp has agreed to acquire Optix SA for shares worth $39m: Optix is a document imaging and optical storage technology company headquartered in Paris; in the year to March 31 1992, it had earnings of $2.5m on turnover of some $40m.

CP0 160 IBM Japan Ltd reported net profit for 1992 down 44.8% to the equivalent of $268m; turnover slipped 1.6% to $10,750m; the company says service business including systems integration showed double-digit growth from the previous year but that hardware sales turned in a double-digit drop; ‘We are still in the midst of changing course to become a service company,’ the company said —‘Along with the severe state of the economy, that resulted in lower sales and profits;’systems integration, accounting for just 8% of sales, grew by 40% and IBM Japan plans to increase staff there by half this year; hardware sales accounted for 53% of the total, but the ratio could reverse this year; the company plans to cut operating costs per employee by about 10%, further reducing headquarters staff by a quarter, reducing the number of top executives by a quarter and slashing executive bonuses in half.

CP1 204 Pre-tax profits fell 85.6% to £145,000, on turnover down 7.3% to £62.7m.

CP3 266 Computer Products Inc has reported fourth quarter net profits of $1.7m against losses of $10.7m last time, after $465,000 tax credits this time and $47,000 last time, and $5.2m losses from discontinued operations last time, on turnover that rose 43.4% at $29.9m; net profit for the year to January 3 stood at $2.7m against losses of $9.6m last time, after $674,000 tax credits this time and $91,000 last time and $5.5m losses from discontinued operations plus $6.3m restucturing charges last time, on turnover that rose by 37.9% to $114.8m.

CP6 212 But although the company managed to exceed its targets by the half year stage, it wasn’t able to maintain such growth levels — turnover for the entire year grew only 10% to $253m.

CPD 204 Synoptics Communications Inc has reported first quarter net profit up 334.3% at $21.9m, on turnover that rose 123.3% to $152.7m.

CPE 242 Data Transmission Network Inc saw third quarter net up 16.7% at $301,000, on turnover up 26.8% at $6.7m; net profit for the nine months was up 7.3% at $1m, on turnover that rose 24.2% to $19.4m.

CPG 283 Sun Microsystems Inc has reported third quarter net profits down 15.9% at $51.7m on turnover that rose 19.9% at $1,141.3m; net profit for the nine months slumped 40.6% at $80.6m on turnover that rose 16.5% at $3,048.1m; net earnings per share fell 22% to $0.60 in the quarter, 42% to $0.77 in the nine months.

CPG 286 Wells-Gardner Electronics Inc has turned in fourth quarter net profits of $80,000 against losses of 41.3m last time, after $992,000 restructuring charges last time, on turnover that rose 10.4% to $11.1m; net profit for the year to December 31 stood at $1.55m, after $528,000 tax credits, against losses of $1.46m last time, on turnover that rose 26.1% to $48.9m.

CPJ 152 Informix Corp has reported first quarter net profit flat at $11.5m on turnover that rose 24.5% at $62.1m.

CPM 248 Cirrus Logic Inc has reported fourth quarter net profits down 37.6% at $2.5m on turnover up 81.7% at $104.6m; net profit for the year to March 31 rose 20.1% at $20.6m on turnover up 63.0% to $354.8m; net per share, off 37.5% at $0.10 in the quarter, rose 19% to $0.81 in the year; the comparisons are with figures that have been restated to reflect the acquisitions of Acumos Inc in the first quarter and Pacific Communications Sciences Inc in the fourth.

CPN 218 The median decline in turnover for larger companies was 3.1% against 2.8% for smaller ones; pre-tax margins were 5.7% for larger companies, 5.4% for smaller ones.

CPN 275 Summagraphics Corp has turned in third quarter net losses of $1.3m up from losses of $832,087 last time, after $1.5m non-recurring charges last time, on turnover that fell by 17.1% to $16.8m; net losses for the nine months stood at $1.3m, after $411,247 gains from the cumulative effect of an accounting change, down from losses of $2.3m last time, on turnover that fell by 1.3% to $52.7m.

CPP 180 Information Solutions Inc has reported first quarter net profit of $154,255 against losses of $289,010 last time, on turnover that rose 280.4% to $1.4m.

CPP 198 Vertex Communications Inc has reported second quarter net profits up 36.8% at $937,000, on turnover that rose 14.7% to $13.3m; mid-term net profits rose 33.2% to $1.7m, on turnover that rose 14.2% to $25.8m.

CPP 236 Commenting on its most recent losses (page five) Advanced Logic Research Inc, Irvine, California said that more price competition reduced its turnover, and that its gross margin for the latest six months was just 14% compared with 22% in the year-ago period; the impact of the reduction was partially offset by cost-cutting programmes, and its cash position improved by $5.5m to $35.1m during the latest six months while the company simultaneously cut bank debt $7m.

CPR 304 Legent Corp has reported second quarter net profits up 85.9% at $18.4m, on turnover up 0.2% at $102.6m; mid-term net rose 66.7% to $37.5m, on turnover up 9.8% at $219.3m.

CR0 214 The three, he said, would add another £50m in revenues to companies with a combined turnover of £200m.

CSW 210 He said that in 1992, IBM France generated approximately $175m of turnover from its RS/6000s and related software and services.

CT9 195 For the first quarter of 1992, worldwide turnover was $14,000m, up what is a very modest 3.3% for a company that not long ago was perceived as an engine of relentless growth.

ECK 690 So as you can see, it is imperative for us to attain a constant turnover to maximize profitability.’

EX5 2159 So, shop where you know there is high turnover of produce.

FRN 124 fines of up to 10 per cent of UK turnover for firms found to be in breach of the prohibitions.

FY7 248 If you look at erm the the turnover of shops down that road, then that must say something about the amount of money in the area.

GVU 1661 the amount of turnover to third parties other than Government and the amount of central and local government payments shown as revenue;

GXJ 1651 In acute care there will be pressure from rapid bed turnover, which emphasises the importance of early preparation for discharge.

H46 231 The merged Matra-Hachette should, he said, meet a profit forecast of FFr350m on a turnover of FFr53bn in 1992.

H4A 319 Because what they’re now doing to them is saying, unless you turnover two thousand prescriptions every month, we’re gonna do away with your Professional Allowance.

HHX 11061 That would considerably reduce the turnover of personnel, encourage people to serve in the force and enable us to use their expertise in it for much longer, so that less time will be spent on training.

HRH 585 A company buying on credit and selling for cash with a rapid stock turnover, such as a supermarket, might have no financial problems with a ratio of less than 1: 1.

HS1 218 America has bought six machines over the last few years with two going to the Wellco Corporation and the remainder to Shaw Industries, the world’s largest carpet manufacturer with turnover in excess of $1.25 Billion.

HSF 408 Britain’s largest firm is Attwoods, but most of its soaring turnover is in America.

K4T 7929 ‘Last financial year we had a turnover of about £16m so it is apparent how significant the contract is,’ he said.

K59 1945 They include seven market leaders and had a turnover of almost £19 million last year, though they suffered a loss.

K59 2453 Turnover rose 16 per cent to £2.3 billion, while sales of the best-selling ulcer drug, Zantac, also grew 16 per cent to £1.03 billion.

K97 11379 Riding schools have an estimated annual turnover of £9 million and horsefeed £60 million, which does not include specialist supplements.

#9

None of these sentences specify which type of turnover is being talked about, but the majority of the time it appears they are talking about revenue, not actual financial turnover, which is a different, more specific thing. Reference to revenue as turnover is British slang, and it’s ambiguous.

#10

With regard to the ambiguity, that’s what happens when one word has a number of definitions.
I’m not sure what the point of the sentences is meant to be, but you noticed that some of those sentences are of American origin, I’m sure.

#11

I would say few or none of the sentences are of American origin, because you can read the American business press avidly for decades without knowing that “turnover” is ever used as a synonym for “revenue”.

#12

Limited vocabulary, eh?

#13

Precise vocabulary. “Turnover” doesn’t mean revenue.

#14

Can anyone explain to me please why the school is called ‘Dresden School For British English’ and not ‘of British English’? I thought a school is for people not subjects such as British English. But then again, I might be totally wrong.[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC listening, question-response: Should I leave a voice mail if Ms. Dawkins is not there?[YSaerTTEW443543]

#15

A lot of schools are called the school “for” something. There’s a place in Detroit called the “College for Creative Studies”. The University of Wisconsin Law School has the “Institute for Legal Studies”. There’s a place called the International Council for Canadian Studies, an Association for Asian Studies, and a lot more. It’s very common usage.

Search "for * studies" on Google, and you’ll see a million places with names like that.

#16

Hi Jamine K

Mr.Jazmine wrote: Turnover & Revenue are NOT both the same.

I would like to explain that in simple way which you can understand.

Turnover is the total of amount of business in given time, i.e. Sales Turnover for the
Year 2010 - 2011. and the Revenue is the same, but disounting the cost.

For Example: I sell shoes for Rs.1000/=

The Cost of the Shoes for Rs.450/=

Taxes Rs. 50/=

Turnover would be Rs. 1000/-

The Revenue would be = Turnover - The Cost = Revenue
Rs.1000 - Rs.450 = Rs.550/-

The profit = Rs.1000 - 450 - 50 = Rs.500/

Turnover has several meanings,generally signifying the totalling of what has been exchanged. Turnover refers to “replacement of something” and can refer to inventory or employees.
Out of Turnover only Revenue has been valued, of course, it is not simillarly same, but it is related to some extent.

Thank you

S.Shanthi

#17

Hi Jamie, so far I have not seen any so called ‘ESL textbook’ that was really interesting, authentic and up to date. It doesn’t matter whether an ESL textbook is written in ‘British English’ (whatever that is) or American English (whatever that might be). Any ESL textbook has at least the following problems:

  1. It is ‘ESL’. This means it will never be used by any native speaker because it’s not authentic. A book that is not used by native speakers is not very useful.

  2. It’s a textbook. Again, no native speaker will ever use textbooks to learn something about business.

The problem is that most ESL learners think that by learning business English they can learn how to do business better and make a career. However, it should be the other way round: By learning how to do business better you also learn English. So English should be a by-product of that process, not the main goal.[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC listening, question-response: Didn’t you used to work for Mega Firm?[YSaerTTEW443543]

#18

Torsten, your anti-textbook bias is understandable but sometimes a little extreme. I have used textbooks for various languages that are extremely useful specifically because they are based on real, spontaneous conversations people have had and not canned conversations that a textbook writer has made up. (Some of the German textbooks for children that Hueber Verlag puts out, for example, are outstanding in that way.)

So, for your point (1), there are language textbooks that actually are quite authentic because they draw on authentic material. Whether they’re used by a native speaker is immaterial. My 7th-grade math book wasn’t used by mathematicians, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t help me.

As to your point (2), I know plenty of native English speakers who used textbooks to learn something about business. In fact, everyone I know who has an MBA learned about business largely from textbooks. When those textbooks were good, what they learned was useful.

I think ESL learners where you live and where I live have different purposes in taking a business ESL class. Where I am, the students are already doing business in one way or another, but they find their English is ineffective or not well suited to business situations they get into.

For example, I had two Indian engineers who complained that they couldn’t hold anyone’s attention in meetings, because their English was too formal and they didn’t know how to make jokes. In that case, I had them do things like explain very dry business charts to me, and we’d work on expressing the information in colloquial language. Then we would make up jokes about the charts. You wouldn’t believe how many hilarious jokes you can come up with when comparing two line graphs, one of the unemployment rate and one of consumer spending, for example.

In another case, I had a young Indian woman with a “commerce” degree, but no practical experience, in the same room with an engineer who wanted to learn the necessary language to understand his pension funds. I gave them both an imaginary $100,000, showed them a bunch of investment information resources on the web, and told them to make up a plan for investing it, and present it the next week with justification of their strategy. Then we worked on their English and on the content of their presentation. At one point the Mexican guy brought in a document explaining his company’s choice of investment funds, and we went through that.

These classes were only useful to these people because I have worked in business and because I know investment markets. The average English teacher has no clue at all about those things, and that’s where good textbooks are useful. (However, a crazy, incompetent teacher can negate the effectiveness of any textbook.)

#19

First off, pay attention to my name. I’m not “Jazmine”.

Secondly, I know perfectly well what you mean by “turnover”, but you don’t understand me.

“Turnover” is a catch-all term that has many meanings in business, and in my opinion it’s too imprecise to be used to mean revenue.

For example, in my environment, when you hear, “The company has a turnover of 50 percent,” that means that, in a given year, half the employees leave the company and are replaced.

Take a look at the Merriam-Webster definitions of “turnover”. None of them describe revenue. They all indicate something flowing into and out of a company or organization, not money coming in and staying there.
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/turnover

And here is the definition of “turnover” from Investopedia:

investopedia.com/terms/t/tur … z1kfHflAo1

As you see, none of those business definitions of “turnover” mean revenue.

#20

Thank you for your explanation about “Turnover and Revenue”. What I explained
for Turnover is also correct, I know that Turnover can be measured by percentage %
I should not given my explanations regarding this. I have done a mistake, sorry for that. Anyway thanks a lot for your clarifications sir.
.

Thank you

S.Shanthi