Is Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English wrong?

[Nessie]

Hi,
I’ve come across this sentence (as an example for the word “backfire”) in the Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English:
The company’s new policy backfired when a number of employees threatened to quit.
=> I far as I am concerned, we just use “'s” for human and animals, and never for things, so is the dictionary wrong?

Many thanks
Nessie

[Molly]

“The company’s policy” means “the poilicy of those who run the company”.

[Nessie]

but anyway, the company still sounds like a “thing”,right?

[Yankee]

Hi Nessie

The possessive 's is often used for things as well.
.

[Nessie]

Hi Amy,
Is that usage British English or American English?
Thanks a lot
Nessie

[Molly]

@nessie

Hi Amy,
Is that usage British English or American English?
Thanks a lot
Nessie

Both.

[Nessie]

Then what I have heard from my teacher about that “'s” used for human and animals only must be ancient English…

[Lost_Soul]

@nessie

Then what I have heard from my teacher about that “'s” used for human and animals only must be ancient English…

…or a bad teacher As far as I know, this usage of s’ for inanimate things is dated back to the time out of mind

[Yankee]

Hi Nessie

I’d put it this way:

It is “safest” to use the possessive 's with people and animals. Using it with things is often possible, but it doesn’t always work well. In addition, we often use the thing as an adjective rather than using the possessive form. For example, instead of saying the tree’s trunk, we’d probably just say the tree trunk instead.
.

[Molly]

we often use the thing as an adjective rather than using the possessive form. For example, instead of saying the tree’s trunk, we’d probably just say the tree trunk instead.

Where’s the adjective there?

[Yankee]

.
Note the use of the word ‘as’ (“as an adjective”), Molly. In other words, it is used ‘like’ an adjective.
All of the following refer to some sort of trunk(s):

• antique trunk
• long trunk
• wide trunk
• swimming trunks
• tree trunk
  .

[Alan]

Hi Nessie,

Don’t worry too much about the apostrophe question indicating possession. I think you have to think it through and decide whether putting the apostrophe would make sense or not. You wouldn’t say for example ‘the table’s leg’ because it sounds ridiculous and you would say instead ‘table leg’. With ‘company’ of course you are talking about a company of people and in that case it is acceptable.

Alan

[Molly]

@Yankee

.
Note the use of the word ‘as’ (“as an adjective”), Molly. In other words, it is used ‘like’ an adjective.
All of the following refer to some sort of trunk(s):

• antique trunk
• long trunk
• wide trunk
• swimming trunks
• tree trunk
  .

Ah, right, used adjectivally, right? I agree.

[Molly]

You wouldn’t say for example ‘the table’s leg’ because it sounds ridiculous and you would say instead ‘table leg’.

But. Alan, you’re thinking as a native, there. Many ESL students would not know it sounds ridiculous. So we’re back to square one. “The table’s leg” sounds no more ridiculous than “the sun’s rays”, to many of us.

Consider these examples from the real world:

“When he did rise in the chair it was slowly and grudgingly and he followed McQuaid out into the stone hallway as if he were finding it difficult to walk or move. He held his hand on [color=blue]the door 's edge in the darkness of the hallway.”

Amongst women. McGahern, J. London: Faber & Faber Ltd, 1990

They switched on [color=blue]the car 's headlights as a beacon; but, all of a sudden, as the Prince and his companions were half-way across the water, the lights swung round and moved away as the vehicle set off down the glen.

Charles and Diana. Junor, Penny. London: Headline Book Pub. plc, 1991

The man ordered her out of the car at Farley Mount and then bound her 23-year-old boyfriend before forcing him into [color=blue]the car 's boot.

Liverpool Echo & Daily Post. Liverpool: Liverpool Daily Post & Echo Ltd, 1993

And:

The table Andy is perched over is stacked with several hundred champagne glasses, forming a glittering pyramid rising a couple of metres from [color=blue]the table 's surface .

Complicity. Banks, Iain. London: Little, Brown & Company, 1993

For at [color=blue]the table 's head sat the most bizarre Scarabae of all. In an exactly similar perhaps resewn dress of dark green voile and net, a necklace that was a heart of green cut-glass, and jade ear pendants, her black hair flowing from tortoiseshell combs, her face smoothly powdered, lids black,

Dark dance. Lee, Tanith. London: Warner Books, 1993

Source: corpus.byu.edu/bnc/x.asp

[Molly]

Try searching [color=blue]the * 's * here:

corpus.byu.edu/bnc/x.asp

Interesting results.

[Nessie]

Hic, I’ve just understood what Alan and Amy have explained than you give these examples, Molly (thanks anyway )
But now I’m confused again => The BNC is surely not wrong, is it? Then how can we explain these examples, Alan?

[Jamie_K]

Some of these examples are compound nouns, and not adjective+noun combinations:

• antique trunk
• long trunk
• wide trunk
• swimming trunks
• tree trunk

The best (usually reliable) test for determining whether you have a compound noun or an adjective and a noun is to put the first element in the position of a predicate complement. If it works, you’ve got an adjective. If it doesn’t, you’ve got a compound noun:

antique trunk
“This trunk is antique.” (It more or less works, so “antique” is an adjective.)

long trunk
“This trunk is long.” (It definitely works, so “long” is an adjective.)

wide trunk
“This trunk is wide.” (It definitely works, so “wide” is an adjective.)

swimming trunks
“These trunks are swimming.” (It definitely DOESN’T work, so “swimming trunks” is a compound noun.)

tree trunk
“This trunk is tree.” (It definitely DOESN’T work, so “tree trunk” is a compound noun.)

elephant trunk
“This trunk is elephant.” (It definitely DOESN’T work, so “elephant trunk” is a compound noun.)

[Jamie_K]

@Alan

You wouldn’t say for example ‘the table’s leg’ because it sounds ridiculous and you would say instead ‘table leg’.

That isn’t always true.

"This table’s leg is broken."
(The leg is attached to the table, so you know which table it belongs to.)

“This table leg is broken.”
(The leg isn’t part of any identifiable table, and it may never have been attached to a table. It could just be in a furniture factory’s part inventory.)

Also:

"This camera’s lens is scratched."
(The lens is either attached to the camera or is part of a kit, and it’s clear which camera it belongs to.)

“This camera lens is scratched.”
(The lens is not associated with any particular camera. It could be in the store being sold as a separate item.)

[Inga]

We study noun + noun structures, where the first noun modifies or describes the second (like an adjective). e.g. milk chocolate/chocolate milk.
We use the possessive 's structure most often when the first noun refers to a person or animal, or to a country, organization or other group of living creatures, especially if the relationship between the two nouns could be expressed with HAVE. (the government’s decision, America’s gold reserves and the name of the street, the back of the room) But there are so many examples of this kind: the train’s arrival, the plan’s importance, the concerto’s final movement or the final movement of the concerto.
Thank you for attention.

[Yankee]

@Jamie (K)

Some of these examples are compound nouns, and not adjective+noun combinations:

Yes, Jamie, I am aware of that, and that is precisely the reason I posted a mixed list. In a compound noun, one of the nouns is typically the main one and the other modifies it – much the way an adjective does.

For example, “a government agency” does not mean that the agency is a government. However, the word government does modify the word agency.