Double standards with meeting with political leaders?

Do you think that the US government is using double standards when it comes to talking with leaders of political regimes? I mean, Mr Bush refuses to meet with the Cuban government while he is good friends with Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia and looks forward to attending the Olympic Games in Beijing. Are the human rights records of Cuba really that much worse than those of China and Saudi Arabia to justify Bush’s approach?[YSaerTTEW443543]

TOEIC listening, photographs: Fighting a bush fire[YSaerTTEW443543]

The human rights record alone isn’t the only consideration. A lot of it involves what a regime’s proportion of pragmatism to fanaticism is. The Cuban regime has shown for a long time that nothing can be achieved with them, because they subscribe to the old Marxist notion that negotiations are part of war strategy and are used to buy time or exploit an adversary’s weakness. The same is true of the regime in North Korea. The Clinton administration negotiated with them and were just taken for suckers. The Palestinians use peace negotiations when they’re being beaten and want to rearm. The negotiations never do any good. The Saudis and the Chinese are more pragmatic and can be dealt with, even though the outcome is not always ideal.

Torsten, for some reason your post reminds me of a conversation with a young Polish woman in my classes who said that war is never justified. I asked her what a country should do if it was being menaced, and she said they should talk to the other side. I asked her why the Poles didn’t talk to Hitler, and her only response was embarrassed laughter. She knew that negotiating with Hitler would have done no good at all, as had been amply shown by the British and the French. Many place the Cubans in the same category with Hitler in that regard.

Have you heard this excerpt from Bush’s speech in Israel yesterday?

For the record, a lot of Americans agree that Bush shouldn’t be attending the Olympics in Beijing. Probably more than approve of it.

And where do you think one can do better business, make more profit, with Cuba or with China?

Wonder why he didn’t say this:

Do you think any of Mr Bush’s friends are a part of this gang?

[color=blue]‘Wealthy Saudi financiers and charities have funded terrorist organizations and causes that support terrorism and the ideology that fuels the terrorists’ agenda’, Levey told lawmakers yesterday.

‘Even today, we believe that Saudi donors may still be a significant source of terrorist financing, including for the insurgency in Iraq,’ he added. … 38132.html

Saudi donors are not necessarily the Saudi government. The Saudi government has something to lose in the terror war also, because Al-Qaeda intends to overthrow them also and has bombed buildings there.

Politic is very deep subject and since the very first begining of our history all governments had to have the double face.
I wonder only how it is possible to have now any doubts about it.
A human being is in general an awful lier and what has been done good in this world is more because of Mother Natur as by man planning.
Negotiations are part of war and it is invented not by Marxist even blessed America knows that by heart from birth stage.
Germany leads in many aspects that dreadful policy up to nowdays.
When beaten or humiliated and left aside we are eager to boost with some idealistic views ,
a little stronger or better secured in name of peace of course we would take first incoming pride without any shame.


What does “not necessarily” mean there, Jamie? Do you have information which contradicts the accusation that the Saudi Royal family are one of the biggest funders of terrorists?

Whatever happened to Prince Nayef bin Fawwaz Al Shalaan, BTW?

Hey, is it true that Bin L funded George W’s first venture into oil?

Yet one understands why George W and Co. are pallying around with the Saudi Royals. The Saudi Royal family is on the brink of collapse, a victim of its own corrupt history, etc. The US must halt this collapse. Better the despots that some alternatives, right? Did anyone ask the people of Suadi Arabia? Maybe they’d like George W to help them get rid of The Royals and the "some alternatives.

The Saud family’s power over Arabian peninsula was consolidated through both military force and MANY marriages to the daughters of tribal leaders, and these marriages produced a lot of children. This results in every other Saudi walking down the street being some kind of “prince” or “princess”. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel to link some perceived villain to “the Saudi royal family”, because it includes thousands of people who may have little connection to the Saudi government.

Do the latter include Prince Nayef bin Fawwaz Al Shalaan? And is Bush getting into the sack with that latter group, or with the despots who have real power?

I really don’t think that Bush is much more different from average politicians.
Drugs crime in France and drugs crime in USA would be two different stories.
In USA it could be almost impeachment when official would try to rescue drug dealer from problems even very powerful drug dealer.
I hope so.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Hi Jan,

might be that I´m a bit worldly innocent so can you, please, explain me how you come to that conclusion?


I can’t judge Germany good or bad they are same as USA for me but reduced in abilities ,after their voting against Georgia membership in Nato I have no doubts that Putin’s state is still very deep in favour for Germans .With blood chilly coincidance German government makes deals over heads of eastern Europe with Russia about eastern Europe ,
advocating Putin’s case when ever possible and knowing of his character of his policies seems to be in democratic Germany no problem at all.
You are cooking the future conflict which wouldn’t be solved without “bad” Americans.
I can’t write too much at once because my satellite connection looses regurally its signal.
When it wouldn’t be USA in the world today, my dear Fan of Arabian Horses ,Germany never would recognize the post war boarder on the Oder.

I would like to share my hopes that politic is somehow very strong connected to grassroots movements in the society, when bulk of voters would shift its deliberatly indifference, what happens now only in times of crisis , hopefully it could be less misundestandings and more courage to act for spreading normality worldwide.
Right now it is so complicated (I mean politic), that we don’t want to know to much or do something ourselfes, we rather prefer
to judge final results.
It is very easy for Europe to has different views and plays “we would do better” when we know that USA Army after all would be able to deploy soldiers and make things “better or worse” but do something.
It was not just USA who had sold to Sadam the arms, it is not America alone working with Saud’s Family.

Today I have seen in news the picture of black man laying on soil surrounded by twenty or more photoreportes, most probably he was wounded in gunfire ,nobody was helping all of them just like wolfes were doing only pictures many many pictures and movies.
Do you think among them were just Americans or maybe also some Germans or Poles.


Hi Jan, I think, this part of your message should be made commonly viewable. Germany isn´t that politcal or economical giant it´s often considered to be, at least not in my opinion.

I must say, I have another view on this. For me there is something quite confusing on the splitting of the former USSR. From a quite hugh and powerful Nation there are many small and in many cases poor countries left which are offending themselves at any ocassion trying to join another military union i.e. Nato and want to play a big role there. I not really sure if it´s just their attempt to get some fortune there and help against the nation they pointed out as their counterpart and as soon as they notice they are a small fish in a big pond only they possibly try to flee from there. Sorry for being sceptical. I mean the greatest goal they had was to escape from the communism and that was what they have been able. Now they try to substitute capitalism for communism instead of finding their own way. For me that must be their challenge and of course they needed some help on that issue which they would receive I´m sure.

Germany would never been able to conquer and rule the whole world like a mental ill “Führer” was able to convince a whole nation. Even without the US (which definitely speeded up the fall of the Nazis) Germany would have acknowledged anytime that they have broadened their boarders to much. I don´t know where the current Oder/Nieße line nowadays would exist. But let me, please, add another thought. Currently almost each European nation is eager to belong to the EU. The goal of the EU is to unite all European nations to a Federation with several countries. You´re right saying that Germany and France had been the initiators of the EU. Hm…how could I decline your allegation, as far as it was one?

If they would be they would play more aggresive same as now for USA.

Nato is mutual defence pact and it has nothing to do with playing any role.
Georgia has lost the fivth of its territory and had almost faced Russian invasion.
I am afraid that
it is no other way only “condemned capitalism”

Adolf Hitler was really “mental” he was just politician his collapse has been achieved by miracle two closest friends STALIN and HITLER, two bandits started fighitng each other.
I hope it would not change your point of view but Hitler was very very close to the situation to conquer world. Profoundly his lack of knowledge in international relations has destroyed him .He was trully without mercy and moral basic but in that matter, he has been overrun alot by Stalin.
Putin boosted many many times how good was Russia under Stalin and now his beloved KGB would fight in very same way pushing forward the horrible inheritage .
Putin has found even his own way instead of capitalism he has created putinism.
(40 billion dollars private fortune of Mr Prime Minister of Russian Federation)

The Bug river ,when two bandits would not fall against each other, and the second option a little before URAL mountains, in case when Hitler could had understood Eastern Europe ( common failure of Germans untill now I see) :lol:


greetings from Northern Sea, price of oil 138 dollars ?? We do what possible to explore here some oil but this is getting more and more amusing (speculations ,speculations & speculations)