America and terrorists?

Herc, you’re using a typical propaganda trick that the Arabs use constantly. Display a picture that will arouse emotion in the viewer, but don’t explain what happened before or after or even what the picture really shows.

Yes, it’s horrible to see the face of a victim of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. However, the way you deal with it is just to show the picture out of context, and we’re just supposed to think that the whole Japanese nation was sitting around, minding their own business when suddenly the Americans dropped a nuclear bomb on them just to be evil.

The United States stayed out of World War II even as the Japanese were attacking and taking over countries in a large part of the Pacific. China was our ally at the time, so we should have defended them, but we just stood there while the Japanese invaded and eventually killed more than 20 million people (35 million, if you believe the Chinese) and made refugees out of 95 million people. (If these statistics sound high to you, look them up.) FINALLY, in 1941, when the Japanese air force attacked the US navy in Hawaii, we entered the war. We lost a total of more than 11 million soldiers in World War II, not to mention the number of soldiers lost by Australia and other allies, and an attack on the Japanese mainland would have cost too many more lives. The decision was made to use one nuclear bomb. Hiroshima was destroyed, and the Allies requested that Japan surrender. They refused, and so the second one was dropped. The injured face of the man in the photograph doesn’t give any indication that the Japanese government had been responsible for the deaths of more than 50 million people by the time the bomb was dropped, and that no one had provoked them. It also does not indicate that the bomb got Japan to surrender (which talking did not do), and that Japan became a peaceful democracy after that.

Just because one side of a conflict has more power doesn’t mean that it’s wrong.

As for the Abu Graib pictures, I think it’s interesting that you probably imagine that I have not seen them. They were in our newspapers and on TV day after day, and in a very negative light, of course. You probably don’t know (or don’t care) that the media only got the stories and pictures after the US military had begun investigating the abuses. The American soldiers who performed those atrocities have been arrested, tried in a court martial and are now in prison. In contrast, Arabs don’t arrest people like Mr. Al-Zarqawi or others who kidnap people and cut off their heads, or who send 14-year-old girls with bomb belts to blow up pizzerias. In fact, Muslims praise them, and send them more money. Those Muslims who don’t praise them say it’s a tragedy and then say “BUT” and proceed to defend their actions.

In another matter: Notice that in 1978 Egypt concluded a peace agreement with Israel in which Egypt was given back land in return for peace. There has been no war between Egypt and Israel since. In 2000, an accord was signed between Lebanon and Israel in which Israel would withdraw from Lebanon and that a cease fire would follow. After the Israelis withdrew, Hezbollah kept lobbing rockets into Israel, more than 1,000 in six years. The Lebanese government didn’t do anything to stop Hezbollah from doing that. Finally the Israelis had to make it stop. Like the Nazis, Islamic militant groups, don’t want peace, and they only use peace negotiations as a tool of war.

Muslims do not live as brothers with Christians in most Muslim countries, especially those ruled by Shariah law. I read plenty about their situation from eyewitnesses, and I meet a lot of them and hear their stories face to face. This whole idea of Islamic tolerance of other religions is a lie, as are so many other things that so many Muslims tell me. Certain individual Muslims may be tolerant, but Islamic society in general, and especially Shariah law, is not. Muslims can’t convince me otherwise, because years of day-to-day experience with Muslims from the Arab countries have conditioned me to assume that I have to check everything an Arab Muslim tells me, because there’s about a 50 percent chance that he’s lying – not just about politics or religion, but about anything. I find certain Arabs trustworthy, and I have never had a problem with Muslims from places like Indonesia, but those from the Middle East are big on lying and various sorts of scamming, in my own personal experience.

And don’t even get me into Muslim religious propaganda. The religion was spread through violence right from the time of Mohammed, and they continue to spread it by threatening people or killing people to spread fear in others. There are quite a few writers who are very critical of Christianity, and they do not have to hide. Many writers who criticize Islam get death threats and have to go into hiding. And, as with other things, I find that Muslims lie about their religion when it suits their purpose.

Conchita, how can you make that comparison?! What obscene disrespect for the French and the memory of their resistance fighters! Can you show me a film of Charles De Gaulle cutting off someone’s head with a knife and holding it up to the camera screaming, “Dieu est grand!”? Did the French resistance send young teenagers with bomb belts into pizzerias and buses to blow up civilians? Did the French resistance lob rockets full of explosives and ball bearings into Germany for six years after it had pulled its troops out and had signed a peace accord?

Hezbollah has written in its charter that one of its goals is the destruction not only of Israel, but of all Jews and non-Muslims. Did the French resistance have anything like that toward the Germans in their documents? No!

The very idea that you could equate the French resistance with Hezbollah is absolutely sick. I’m sorry for using that word, but it’s just appalling. I’d expect something that foolish from brainwashed Middle Easterners, but not from an educated Spanish woman.

yes I believe Tamara,
when I was a kid five French communist party members had visited my school

in an attempt to see paridise,

all five had resigned from communist party were they were back home they just coudn’t believe their eyes.

Remeber please that exactly You and Me were in the same situation.
Israel is not at all what I like but they have alone in the entire region free media relativle free according to Amnesty International or Human Rights organizations
What we now need is only truth and just the truth.
no more no less.
If somebody is 15-20 years old today - tomorrow will be exactly in the age to change a lot of things around.
I try to understand people and I don’t see anything wrong
in causing thinking
Regards
Jan
Jamie I believe that in time of Hiroszima nobody could say what the atombomb really was.
Truman was fresh president and he was just informed about Manhatan Project when the decision needed to be taken.That time even sientist were unable to say what impact radiation really would have.
God thanks that Hitler and Stalin were just a bit to late
with their own “programs”.For me it is really a slight difference between General Paton and Nazi Officers,I never would shake a hand of somebody like Nixon ,and to attack
Bonus Army in Washington or Keeping Ku Klux Klan alive so long are exactly what you call Nazi policy.
But thanks all Americans for what they did for Europe.

Jan… you perhaps know the history… and, I suppose, XX century has concentrated in itself more than several previous centuries…

The truth?…
The history is a strange thing… Not to mention Orwell,…, etc

Seeking the truth always has it’s cost, are we ready to pay it here, on this language learning site?

…My attitude is:

  • There are quite many historical events about which we NEVER will know the truth at all; only someone’s interpretations;
  • There is not the only truth for all, for everyone ‘the truth’, at last, is always subjective. And the sad thing is that when you (we) become actually serious with that, we always need to make a choice. The side, I mean…
  • I know well the effect of brainwashing; that make me sure that there is no sense to discuss some themes with anyone brainwashed carefully;
  • There are themes on which I have to say something, as I in my life have happened to have quite many conversations with true witnesses of some great events. I saw plenty of true documentary, believe me… And I have the… proper family history - quite enough to hate some things like ‘communism’, etc,
    But I wouldn’t start any public discussion here, as I think, this is just a fuel.

Or, to use the specific term - stirring up national hatred.

…For example, Holocaust (especially in its modern interpretation) is another excellent theme to discuss it ‘seeking the truth’…

… Jan, you perhaps know well, that when ‘the truth’ becomes more important than everything else (good people relationships, etc), one group of people becomes ready to destroy half a world (virtual or real) - or even all of it - to ‘put things right’.

Of cource it is very hard and almost have no sense
this is a fuel
but let’s hope it works …with time very slowly.

Americans have also some"feelings" and what they think about things like these , just guess??

10 years ago I have seen in Sfax (a port Town in Tuniesia) a group of young people togeather with moslem prist they were just same as in my country praying youngs attached to some churches loughing joking with some books
the girl on wheel chair had even a guitar.
I stoped on red light and watched them passing me by with gentle smile.
The last one - boy in black European suit with some plastic brown sun glasses suddenly stopped come very very close to me
and face to face something like 20 centimeters
was saying in whisper: F…You , F…You , F…You with blind anger
Tunisia is modern and quite liberate compare to the rest of Arabs countries,but the important for me was my own surprise.

I haven’t expected this.

We couldn’t talk we couldn’t explain anything we were suddenly
like enemies even without one gesture somebody else had done the "job " on this boy I was only anonimous receiver.

Regards
Jan

History is complicated and nothing surely is simple.
I don’t understand this myself but some of history
we would be always involved in unfortunatly.

Jamie (K)

Now, I am sure you are have psychic ill,

you are such blind man or you have color blind and everybody say to you this color is [color=red]Red and you say no this color is [color=red]black.

anyway we are live in problem’s heart and we see the truth… not like you just you sat on your house and hear to what say your government.

wow, So the French resistance sent the roses and welcome to Nazis.

again you’re very bad in history.

I challenge you If your say right about Hezbollah’s charter “k” again you’re [size=200]liar [/size].

do you note from your posts ? you are want of me talk bad things on Christian and Jewish and atheist… such as you do when talk about Arab and Moslams.

[color=darkred]never, I can’t speak else the truth We are(Moslem and Christian and Jewish) live as brothers in syria.

you are such as Osama Ben laden… you both have same principles ( you dab on hate between people )

So from this minute you have a new name [color=black][size=150]w.K Osama Ben laden.[/size]

Mba

Guys, guys,
take it easy!
Do anyone of you think that you can convince the other?
Really?
Mba, if you say it’s red, and he says it’s black, there’s no possible way to explain anything about the subject.
You guys both are patriots, you both fight for your principals, and countries (by words thank God).
I respect you guys for it, I wish I could feel the same about my own country.
You can’t be sure how would you feel, if you was born in the opposit country, if you Jamie was an Arab, and Mba was American.
Jamie is brainwashed by the media, Mba is abset about the things are going on in his own neighbourhood.
(no blame here, damn, I wouldn’t be too hapy either if my enemies ruled my country)
Looks like you have two choice:

  • shooting at each other till one of you dies (of being too old hopefully) like a regular solgier
  • look up to each others, like marshals , 'cause they know they are the same, it’s only a bad luck they fighting each other.
    I’d prefer you both behave like pros.
    Especially you Jamie, 'cause you are
    -a moderator
    -not the one whos friends die day by day in front of your eyes, if you know what I mean.
    Spencer

I have read Jamie post and I can’t see the same as You.
Am I blind?
I knew alot of people agree the very great part of resistance in
Iraq, Liban ,Palestina have nothing to do with terrorist.
Probably nobody around would question this.
But it is still a little to do with French ressistance
(as far as I know).
I forgive You any liar etc and just hope that You would
trust a bit others ,as well as I trust You that this is in the good faith what you are saying.
Regards
Jan
Esperanto for everybody

I agree with spencer – never on the Internet I saw that someone could actually bring around somebody else who had strong initial attitude.

Anyway, guys, you have no agreement about what evidence you are ready to consider as evidence (facts, validations, etc)
That’s the main point why you can not actually discuss it – no one accept other’s ‘arguments’ as arguments.

Too much emotions… and the final purpose of this … discussion is rather vague…

Jan, it seems to me that (sometimes) you are aimed and interested in just to understanding the reasons for that hate you met - at any cost.
Rather than to keeping peace on this, previously quite peaceful and friendly, site.

To me the second is much more important.

Let’s be more constructive. And… moderate.

Hi Salmon …

until now there isn’t any discussion with you .you should pick your location and be proud of that ,then come on to have a decent discussion …

PS . Are you shy to pick your location ???
and I think I’ve warned you about sharks … be careful … …Sharks like eat you …Mr Salmon

:lol: :lol:

Herc

Hey (k).

Yes , I used that because we are hurting all the time , because USA and its daughter Israel are killing our women and children …
If your daughter or your sister or your brother killed ,what is your feeling ??
When America was attacked by Osama Ben Laden , what did American people feel ??

Unfortunately, you don’t want to understand the fact of your evil government , and sorry to say that you are as " ostrich when it had put its head into the floor , and it thought it will protect itself"
I know that the truth is so difficult to understand it ,and it needs for free minds , and you’ve saw that when I sent some of some of American crimes all over the world , you still have the same idea about " good Amrican behavior "… :shock:

As Mba said , You’re very bad in history

there isn’t any an accord was signed between Lebanon and Israel , you must know that Israel run away from Lebanon after it had occupied since 1982. and it made many and many of crimes and many of rapes and it destroyed Beirut " The capital of lebanon " and hundreds of villages and bridges.
and after that Israel kidnapped more than 10000 people ,most of them are women and children …
Look at The Great and Democratic doing by USA and Israel …

What is that democracy which you are speaking about , and it needs to apply it nuclear weapons ???
So what is the meaning of your democracy ???

The democracy : chose freely what you want or like to chose …

but America’s democracy meaning : chose what we want you to chose, and if you won’t chose that , we will kill you ,but we’ll give you a chance to chose a manner of your death … !!!

Is it America…so … tell
A big [size=150]Hi [/size]to It

Herc

Again and again (k)

Do you think that more than 2.5 milliard Muslims in all over the world are terrorist ???

I suggest you to be rational when you use your mind and visit this websites to know more and more about Islam religion …

Herc